Demos Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 I am seriously thinking of converting my now dismantled CVH powered narrow body SEI to Vauxhall XE 2.0 16V power. I have traced most of the parts for the conversion but I would like to ask your advise on: 1)How far back can the engine be installed (I am having floor mounted brake pedal)? 2)If I have the engine far back will I still have problems with bonnet clearance? 3) Will my original prop-shaft and semi-axles be able to endure the increased torque? 4) Is there any specific exhaust manifold for SEI narrow body conversion, it would also be interesting if I could find one that goes over and out of the body as I could pass the steering column underneath it and convert to left hand drive as well? 5)Any comments on the Westfield mounting brackets for the specific conversion? 6)Also how about the compatibility of the Vauxhall engine sender units to my current SW gauges of water Temp, Oil pressure rev counter and Speedo (currently is calibrated to a MT75 box)? 7)Any weight figures of Vauxhall powered SE, SEI or SEIW’s? 8)Finally I would like to ask if anyone knows whether or not a hydraulic fly off hand brake is road legal. (The car is already registered, so I would have to pass MOT and not SVA with this modification)? Your answers are much appreciated Regards Demos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Crikey........ 1. As far back as the bellhousing will allow. The bellhousing won't go that far in to the tunnel, so not that far back. It's not something that should be any major cause for concern, though, weight distribution wise...... 2. If you have a high line bonnet, no. I have a N/A Cossie under a narrow, high line bonnet, no problem...... 3. Prop will be fine. In an SEi the driveshafts may well be a touch marginal. I twisted a driveshaft with my Cossie car with a mere 170(ish) bhp. It was at low revs, on a normal road surface too. The "upgrade" to V8/"race" driveshafts requires new uprights if you currently have drum brakes on the back. The new uprights need disc brakes and calipers too, so twisting a driveshaft was an expensive experience..... 4. Through the bonnet manifolds are available from Tony Law, although I have no idea if he has patterns for narrow bodies cars. You may well be forced in to taking it somewhere for a bespoke manifold to be made. 5. Ask the factory (01384 400077). I'm not sure if they still make or stock the mounts. Getting mounts fabricated is not an especially big job though, if the factory can't help. 6. I doubt the senders from the CVH will fit in the same holes that they need to on the Vx, so you'll ned new senders, I would have thought. As for teh gearbox/speedo question, if the Type 9 and MT75 ratios are close, the speedo won't be that far out, but to get it *perfect*, it'll ned re-calibrating. 7. My Vx SEiw weighs 600Kg's, with a full(ish) tank of fuel. My Cossie powered narrow car weighs 580Kg's, and there is some easy weight to lose there as well. 560K'gs is a distinct possibility, although it'll have very few creature comforts by that stage....... 8. Hydraulic handbrakes are legal, so long as they have a totally seperate hydraulic system from the main braking circuit, as I understand it. I'll stand to be corrected there though...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demos Posted April 6, 2004 Author Share Posted April 6, 2004 Blatman, I really thank you for the time you spare to answer all my questions. You are v.good! Not only with me but with hundred other club members. You are a bit tough when it comes to Zetec engines but I am with you! I think I am converting to XE fanatic and yet have not even put the engine in my car. Following my questions and your answers 1) I am prepared to even widen the entry of the transmition tunnel (cut and weld a little bit) if necessary to move the engine back a further 30mm. For weight distribution… 3) My car is independent rear and has disc brakes as well but I am still not sure if I have adequately strong driveshafts. You see, my driveshafts are the old type U-joint. 4) I spoke to Tony Law but he needs to have my car there (I live abroad). So I have to search elsewhere. Pity because he must be really good. If I could only find a second hand exhaust manifold unit…. 5) I rung Westfield and yes they still make the engine mounts foe narrow body chassis. 7) I have to have new senders for Temp, Oil but will they be calibrated for my SW gauges? 8) The hydraulic handbrake is an independent circuit but it ends up in the same caliper inlet. Is this still legal I wander. Any MOT expert? Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 1. Won't make any noticeable difference, IMHO. If you were a good enough driver to be able to spot the difference 30mm might make, you wouldn't be playing with Westfields. Put the hacksaw and the welder away........ 3. Measure the outside diameter of the driveshafts, then ask the factory if you have original or V8 type driveshafts. The "standard" narrow driveshafts used on drum braked SEi's are significantly smaller than the V8/race ones, so some-one at the factory should be able to tell you what you have. I'd measure mine and tell you, but I can't do that until next weekend, 'cos I'm going away....... 4. 5. 7. Get the senders for the Vx from SW. That way, they will be the right ones for the gauges. DO NOT use VDO, Vauxhall, Ford, or any other manufacturers senders. ALWAYS buy senders from the same peole who made the gauges, NOT the engine...... 8. Would NOT be legal. The theory is that if the main braking circuit fails, it will take the handbrake with it, 'cos they share components. In this case, the caliper inlet (a banjo bolt fitting, I'm guessing...). The failing main brake circuit could/would be re-filled with fluid from the handbrake until it was gone, at which point the handbrake comes off, and your car is off and away down the hill. If the handbrake circuit fails, it would/could be re-filled from the main brake circuit, and you wouldn't necessarily know until the brakes don't work. Not handy at all...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arm Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Good advice from Blatters. Dont worry too much about getting the engine further back because you will probably find if you cornerweight it the distribution is already near 50/50. However moving the engine back will change the polar moment of inertia. Besides if you move the engine and gearbox back any great amount you will need a new propshaft. If you have drum brakes on the rear of an early independant you may find the bigger drivehafts wont fit (I could be wrong on that). Early independant cars stripped out can be 525 to 550 kg with a VX engine. There are VX engined Westies closer (and under) 500Kg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Purves Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Demos, Re question 5:- I did a x-flow to XE conversion in a narrow bodied car and Westfield could not supply engine mounts to suit. So we cut and shut the wide bodied ones. However this was 2 years ago so they may have started doing them again. Also down to 560kg with full tank of fuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demos Posted April 9, 2004 Author Share Posted April 9, 2004 Thanks guys, I am going to have the engine for a first fit session in a couple of weeks. Yes I would like to install it as far back as possible to avoid gear level extension problems as well. I have seen some c...s and most of them seem to have the engine far forward, I don't understand why they don't make any effort to move the power-train further back ? They could handle even better, although to be honest I have driven one only once and many years ago so I can not make comparisons. My target weight with the VX is about 550-570kg. But I would like to fit a full roll cage and weld some steel panels, so will see, it does not matter 10-20 kg more as long as I manage to make a strong-stiff chassis. 10kg should be less than 5bhp. I will measure the diameter of my driveshaft and let you know next week as well. About the prop shaft, I think I will have to change it anyway because it is currently mated to the MT75 box I have. I really don't know at this stage what is involved with the prop. I will have to fit the engine and gearbox and then I have to ask for advice. It may be even possible to modify my existing one. One more question How about using the original Vauxhall ECU and some QED direct throttle bodies (finances do not allow at the moment the purchase of a DTA system and loom)? I would like to have injection. The Vauxhall ECU and loom I can found for 80 pounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Seabrook Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 My race car has the engine a long way forward and it has a 52/48 front to rear split without me in it. The car is also 545kg full of fuel. Thats without going too made with light stuff (ie front brakes race battery etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulvdk Posted April 11, 2004 Share Posted April 11, 2004 Demos, I have done a SE CVH to XE conversion. I didn't have an unlimited budget so I kept the original injection, loom and ECU. I used an other airbox but it didn't fit under the bonnet. Mine is a LHD so the inlet manifold wasn't a problem. I fabricated the exhaustmanifold out of the original vauxhall one, I had to cut it about 6 pieces an weld it together again, works well and it looks nice too. I can send you pictures if you want. I also fabricated the enginemounts myself, if you can weld and take your time its not a very difficult job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 If you have drum brakes on the rear of an early independant you may find the bigger drivehafts wont fit (I could be wrong on that). Spot on........ it's why the driveshaft conversion requires new uprights and rear braking system. I should have made that clearer.... and weld some steel panels To what, and why? How about using the original Vauxhall ECU and some QED direct throttle bodies (finances do not allow at the moment the purchase of a DTA system and loom)? I would like to have injection. Fairly sure that won't be possible unless you can totally remap the ECU..... If funds are tight, have a search for user Bill Shurvinton. He'll almost certainly be able to supply you an ECU, although it's not exactly a bolt on job....... Also have a search for "Megasquirt" on Yahoo. It's what Bill uses/supplies, etc....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demos Posted April 20, 2004 Author Share Posted April 20, 2004 I am just about to begin the process of a 2.0L Vauxhall XE installation in to my narrow body SEI chassis. I bought a 60K miles engine yesterday from a Vauxhall Calibra for a very decent price including also the original ECU and exhaust / inlet manifolds and loom. I would like to ask you the following again 1) What kind of engine mounts did you use bearing in mind that this is a narrow body chassis and Westfield only still manufactures mounts for the wide body? (Paul did you start from the original brackets when you made yours?) (Mark when you say cut and shut – the height was still ok? Would you be able to post a photo?) 2) What starter do I need to use with the aluminium bell housing for the XE engine to ford gearbox? Will the original Vauxhall be ok? Cause I need to source one. 3) What is the quality /performance of the Westfield exhaust manifold for the same engine? Still, it is for the wide body chassis but has anybody tried to fit it in a narrow body chassis? I have asked the price and it seems quite cheap in comparison to other systems. It is however narrower at the final downpipe 2 inches O.D. , and I also do not know if it will clear the steering rack if I finally decide to transfer it to the left hand side.. The idea of keeping the original ECU and using it with throttle bodies is not very valid, thanks for the advise Blatman, one additional problem is also the fact that the air-flow meter that does not exist with TB”s and that would foul the ECU as I have been told. I would like to conduct Bill Shurvinton in the near future for a more in depth explanation and guidelines for fuel injection. I might use a bespoke system after all. Paul, I have seen your injection installation and it looks quite good for an original set-up. I wander if it would be possible, to cut the original manifold at the bores, make an aluminium box with the original throttle inlet butterfly position horizontally at the front and welded it back to the induction bores-tubes carrying the injectors. Sorry really to bother you with all my questions but as soon this installation phase is over I will be able to contribute something with ideas+ FEA analysis (to be applied to my chassis) for chassis strengthening and suspension mods. Thank you all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Purves Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Demos you have PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Have a search around for user "Mike SEiW" He has just completed the installation of a standard Vx into a wide body car, complete with standard plenum and ECU etc etc. My main concern is that the standard plenum just plain won't fit in a narrow car. Mike made his fit in a wide car, despite my doubts that there would be enough room. In his own words, though, it was pretty tight in there...... A standard Vx starter will be fine. I'm pretty sure the Westfield manifold will leave little or no room for the steering column, and a bonnet exit item would be the best bet. However, it's only a guess. Mike would know for sure as his car is LHD, but as I've mentioned, his is a wide body car, so he probably has a little more room for everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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