adhawkins Posted March 19, 2004 Posted March 19, 2004 The "consent" part of the overtake is usually when the car in front indicates and pulls over. The trouble I had with the guy in the Porsche was that he was indicating and pulling over, but keeping his boot in so I had little or no chance of passing. That's why I had a word. To be honest, I'm surprised he wasn't black flagged, as he was being blue flagged on the same corner for several laps before he pulled in. Andy Quote
timd Posted March 19, 2004 Posted March 19, 2004 Most trackday briefings talk about the car in front indicating he has seen car behind and is letting it past but I have never been told to wait for permission or consent to pass. With some drivers you would wait all day even if they were seriously slow. Also bad manners , for example,to hog the left hand side of the track if briefing says pass on the left! This forces cars to pass on the other side otherwise the queue behind could develop into a pile up! What Nick said 100%. Also, if you're that much faster than the car in front then either you or he are in the wrong session (assuming a sessioned day). A quick chat with the TDO would resolve this amicably and sensibly without the "need" to pass without consent. On an open pit day, just come into the pits and chill for a bit, it'll only take the TNBs and big cars a few laps to cook their brakes and you can go out unhindered. All the trackdays I have been on have explicitly said overtaking is by consent only. But even if they are simply talking "about the car in front indicating he has seen car behind and is letting it past" , surely by implication you are meant to wait until they have indicatied, ie given consent, before passing (on the correct side). Nothing that anybody else on the circuit "forces" you to do anything - there is no excuse for overtaking on the wrong side etc etc, unless the person you are overtaking has explicitly made it clear they are happy for you to do so. For instance some trackdays (mostly open pit days with more experienced drivers) you'll get waved through mid corner, either side, or whatever. This is fine if both parties are happy to do so, and it has been made clear by the driver being overtaken (consent has been given). This really isn't a tricky subject, play by the rules, they're there for your own safety. If you're not happy with the rules take your ARDS course and go play on test days and stop endangering other people. Quote
westy Posted March 19, 2004 Posted March 19, 2004 On the second session they one wasnt so willing to concede defeat, put up a stand to a ridiculous point. With 250 bhp this aint a problem. say 40mph rolling drag race against a 911 turbo you need more horses than that! /experience Quote
Bananaman Posted March 19, 2004 Posted March 19, 2004 On the second session they one wasnt so willing to concede defeat, put up a stand to a ridiculous point. With 250 bhp this aint a problem. say 40mph rolling drag race against a 911 turbo you need more horses than that! /experience Windy from my limmeted experience with the new car, couple of trackdays at Cadwell & Oulton I seemed to be a fair bit faster than the other suff out the 911's etc..... Might help that I was running slicks & was proberbly carrying more speed arround the corners. Might also be down to the 911 drivers being a bit ginger with there toys. Andy P.S. Whats the Power/Weight for a 911 Turbo ? Quote
Nick M Posted March 19, 2004 Posted March 19, 2004 The trouble I had with the guy in the Porsche was that he was indicating and pulling over, but keeping his boot in so I had little or no chance of passing. That's why I had a word. To be honest, I'm surprised he wasn't black flagged, as he was being blue flagged on the same corner for several laps before he pulled in. A classic "straight line junky" then... To be honest there's not a lot you can do about them, other than do exactly what you did, i.e. mention it to the organiser Quote
felters Posted March 19, 2004 Posted March 19, 2004 P.S. Whats the Power/Weight for a 911 Turbo ? 2004 MY, 420bhp and 1600kg. 262bhp/tonne. But it's 4wd and a very quick car... Quote
westy Posted March 19, 2004 Posted March 19, 2004 On the second session they one wasnt so willing to concede defeat, put up a stand to a ridiculous point. With 250 bhp this aint a problem. say 40mph rolling drag race against a 911 turbo you need more horses than that! /experience Windy from my limmeted experience with the new car, couple of trackdays at Cadwell & Oulton I seemed to be a fair bit faster than the other suff out the 911's etc..... Might help that I was running slicks & was proberbly carrying more speed arround the corners. Might also be down to the 911 drivers being a bit ginger with there toys. Andy P.S. Whats the Power/Weight for a 911 Turbo ? Your running a NA 250 spec the same as me, the key is the torque that the turbo gives the porker....you wont get the same torque per litre without forced induction Edit: just to add im talking purely a drag race not cornering speed/slicks versus road tyres etc when this happened to me it was 40-130mph drag without either of us making any gain. I then ran out of revs and gears and he disappeared into the distance, running an aeroscreen would of giving me an edge but you cant have everything Quote
westy Posted March 19, 2004 Posted March 19, 2004 P.S. Whats the Power/Weight for a 911 Turbo ? 2004 MY, 420bhp and 1600kg. 262bhp/tonne. But it's 4wd and a very quick car... standard arent they around 400ft/lb of torque? compared to a mere 180ft/lb ish on a VX 250bhp spec engine, thats enough for me... Quote
CharliePsycho Posted March 19, 2004 Posted March 19, 2004 Ah the joys of passing a Porshe... Before you lot take the Michel for me driving like a wus, you'll get glimpses of the temperature gauge in this vid... running with the needle attempting to act like a minute hand whenever I put my foot down... Since fixed (water-pump) Passing the Porsche But much more satisfying... Passing the cateringvan ...© Quote
mb893 Posted March 19, 2004 Posted March 19, 2004 This is fine if both parties are happy to do so, and it has been made clear by the driver being overtaken (consent has been given). Waaaaay too trusting as it's usually one of those nice people in an Evoberu with their brakes on fire and so other things on thier mind Bottom line I feel, is: Trust no one... wait 'til the chap in front gets fed up with the 'little plastic car' behind and pulls over/indicates/slows/doesn't stamp on the go fast pedal or - hang back a bit/pit and then go have fun... 80mph crashes into armco closely followed by another car that weighs more than you do can't be a good way to spend an afternoon All that kinetic energy..... Quote
the bear Posted March 19, 2004 Posted March 19, 2004 Porker web site quotes a standard 911 turbo @ 420 bhp unladen weight @ 1700kg that if my calculator is right is about 247 bhp per tonne. A Westie coming in at a bantam weight 550 kg unladen producing 170 bhp = 300 bhp per tonne, only the GT2 or GT3 beats this for a power to weight ratio, however as has been discussed here before, the drag factor of a Porker is loads less, hence the ability to embarass them on the short straights only to have them back at you when the road/track permits. The handling of a well set up westie will p##s on his fried potato snacks through the twisty bits though. Quote
Nick M Posted March 19, 2004 Posted March 19, 2004 I think the bare numbers don't do the Porker justice to be honest. As Westy said, the power figure is one thing but they have bucket-loads of low down torque too. They also handle rather well and have plenty of grip to go with that. A Westy on road tyres (nothing silly) would probably struggle to produce the same cornering forces as a Porker. Sticky tyres and slicks help though. At the last track day I did I blagged a ride in a 1980s 911 - not a turbo or Carrera or anything daft like that, just a fairly normal 911. Well, all I can say is that I went from simply *wanting* a Porsche 911 to actually *needing* one !! It was mightily impressive to see what they can do in the right hands. Yes, I've hassled Porsche 911s at trackdays but to be fair to both sides I don't think they were being driven balls out, and I know I'm nothing special at all behind the wheel. It would be interesting to see how properly driven examples of each car compared. Quote
chumley-warner Posted March 20, 2004 Posted March 20, 2004 First track day today with the car running on throttle bodies - managed to pass two 911's on my first session, boy was I a happy bunny. What a difference it made to the car, but I did learn that Porsche drivers get upset very easily. On the second session they one wasnt so willing to concede defeat, put up a stand to a ridiculous point. I gave him a bit of time to wait for a decent straight to let me pass, I dont like getting too close to people on (fun) track days, but he wouldnt give me an inch, and closed any gap that I went for - so in the end I had to get a little nasty, he was a bit wussy with early braking, took him on the inside, but made sure I didnt do it too quickly, let the car drift over his direction a little bit, let him know where the grass was. Kudos to the Impreza who followed me, good jockey. Anyone find it's easier to control drifts with a passenger on board ? Just cos I'm going slower or is it better with a bit of weight on the rear end ? Cheers, Grinning Tom. Well done Tom! Great fun! Drink more beer to hold that back end down - saves you having to always have a passenger! Quote
hilux Posted March 20, 2004 Posted March 20, 2004 I've hassled Porsche 911s at trackdays but to be fair to both sides I don't think they were being driven balls out Nail, hit and on head come to mind. Ah the joys of passing a Porshe... He wasnt trying mate. Sorry. He was out of the corner way ahead of you and on to a long straight and once a turbo 911 comes on song it will slaughter a Westy as the speed builds. Believe me cos I`ve been in a flat out turbo at Bedford Autodrome (good run off areas and a rich owner, ex amateur racing bike/driver) and it was awesome, truly awesome. Westy`s `may` outcorner them at small bends/circuits/chicanes etc but dont be fooled, on anything with a long straight or two its bye bye Westy. Imagine a 911 on slicks.... I can soon cos he`s now got a lightweight, stripped out LHD turbo just for track days etc....cant wait I bought my G27 cos my old Westy was quick to 70 and on bends but after that it took an age to get to its top speed. All Westy`s can be caught with ease by the big BMW`s, Boxsters etc on the dual carriageways if the sustained speeds high enough. My G27 (slightly slower to 60mph, 750kg + me) however will pull like a train all the way up to its `theoretical` top speed of 160mph. A turbo will have to try `real` hard to beat it and it slaughters Boxsters all the way. As the yanks say `aint no substitute for cubes` IMHO Furry Parka on................... Quote
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