Blatman Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Had a look in the Burtons catalouge this morrning and the price for YB NA pistons and rods are the same price as was the cost of cams for the Duratec, so it is down to you not wanting to be part of the first few. Not entirely. Standard Cossie rods are plenty strong enough for big power engines. I'm guessing that if I buy a short Duratec motor, the rods will be immediately scrap if I'm planning on 250bhp+. 10K is stupid money for that amount of power. I think I've spent around 3K to get my NA Cosworth to ~240bhp. A set of wilder cams would see it at 250-260, no problem, with 300bhp do-able with nothing more than top end work. Buck per bang ratio is *very* good on the Cossie, IMHO. The Duratec needs to approach this ratio if it's going to be a truly popular/affordable engine....... How tough is the Duratec crank at high output? I doubt anyone *knows*. There are no doubt many opinions, but again, I'll wait and see. I'm not especially bothered about top end mods, but the bottom end needs to be proven to be durable at high outputs before I spend any money. We should all know a bit more at the end of the up-coming season. No doubt there will be some Duratecs at the various track days and sprints/hillclimbs/races. Lets see what happens....... . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick M Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 I think everyone has their own "special" engine, usually the one installed in their car be it Vauxhall, Toyota, Duratec, etc. Personally I think my 1.6 Vauxhall is a little cracker but I know it has its limitations / costs which mean it won't suit everyone. There is no one engine solution which is right for everybody. On paper the Duratec should be a fine engine which can produce lots of power. 280bhp is by no means silly but whether it's any easier / cheaper / more reliable than, say, a 2.0 Vauxhall still remains to be seen. But at something around the 230bhp level it seems to be eminently sensible and the only additional cost compared to, say, a Zetec or VX appears to be the actual cost of the engine (Duratecs are still more expensive second-hand). But, issues like the bearings not having any retaining tabs seem to suggest that the standard rods / bearings are destined for the scrap bin if you want the thing to rev. That's not necessarily the case with other engines so it has the potential to be an additional cost. Personally I don't think Mountune's price is excessive, when you consider what goes into and who is building it. BUT, I'd always be wary of the hidden costs and what you're getting for the money when prices are being quoted because things like air filters, exhausts and other extras soon add up. Anyway, back to the topic - I'd personally go with the Zetec. It's cheap, reliable, plenty around second hand and you can run it on carbs. Emissions for SVA might be an issue depending on the age of the engine but, compared to a Pinto, it will produce more power and be a nicer long-term package. You could upgrade the Zetec if you felt the need to go quicker whereas a Pinto will always stuggle to get close to even a relatively standard 2.0 Zetec running carbs and maybe some warmer cams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conibear Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 As said before in the US they've got 300bhp, but @ 9000rpm, so I guess they've must have got it pretty strong. Personally, I've had some mod's to the crank, but if I want more power it needs new con rods and pistons, but as said best wait and see this season. I paid about £8k for my high spec and that includes a brand new engine, still stupid dosh mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conibear Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 But, issues like the bearings not having any retaining tabs seem to suggest that the standard rods / bearings are destined for the scrap bin if you want the thing to rev. That's not necessarily the case with other engines so it has the potential to be an additional cost. This has been mentioned before. Do you clever lot actually think that Mr Ford has not thought of this before. They've produced 1000's of these engine's around the world all revving high, if there was a problem it would be in their interest to address it. The 2L Duratec that is installed in the Mondeo red lines at 7200 rpm. My peak power is at this and therefore soft cut is at 7400. As said back to topic, IMO go Zetec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick M Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 But in standard form the engine doesn't produce 230bhp, let alone 280bhp. The lack of bearing tabs was obviously done for a reason, but I suspect performance wasn't it - and I doubt Mr Ford is really all that fussed what people do with their engines after they're out of warranty All I was saying that is for 280bhp to be produced, the engine will need to rev higher and I've already heard first hand reports of bearing issues with the stock rods and bearings. The engine running at 9,000 *may* still have the stock crank but it certainly won't have stock rods and pistons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westfieldman Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Speak to Ammo at http://www.raceco.com/ - Thats where my crank and head are now but he reckons its about £10K to fit one at the moment because of all the special bits you need That to fit a Catering van they can afford it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conibear Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 All I was saying that is for 280bhp to be produced, the engine will need to rev higher and I've already heard first hand reports of bearing issues with the stock rods and bearings. The engine running at 9,000 *may* still have the stock crank but it certainly won't have stock rods and pistons. I'd agree Nick. But we not talking 280 bhp. My engine has standard con rods and pistons and it currently produces about 230bhp. For my engine to produce more they need replacing. Raceline, Mountune and Scholar can confirm this, their info would almost certainly derive from the US, where it has been exstensively tested. These people are very concious of the top half over powering the bottom half. I'd could'nt agree at all that Mr Ford is not bothered what happens to their engines after manufacture/warranty. They have an interest in Rallying and Racing, utilising Zetec and Duractec power plants. Motorsport is a major advertising coup that leads to production car sales. Lets face it any bad press at any time will damage sales. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick M Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 I'd could'nt agree at all that Mr Ford is not bothered what happens to their engines after manufacture/warranty. They have an interest in Rallying and Racing, utilising Zetec and Duractec power plants. Motorsport is a major advertising coup that leads to production car sales. Lets face it any bad press at any time will damage sales. I think you missed my point - I was referring to engines like yours which have been installed in something other than the Ford car that it was intended to go into originally. I'd lay money on the fact that the people who designed the production engines to lug along a Mondeo couldn't give two hoots about what people do to them once they're out of that Mondeo and implanted into, say, a Westfield or an Elise. And yes, I appreciate that your engine is actually a new one rather than something out of scrapped car and may, therefore, have some sort of warranty attached to it. With the best will in the world, I doubt the performance of the Duratec in your Westfield is going to have a major positive or negative effect on Ford's advertising strategy ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conibear Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 I think you missed my point - I was referring to engines like yours which have been installed in something other than the Ford car that it was intended to go into originally. I'd lay money on the fact that the people who designed the production engines to lug along a Mondeo couldn't give two hoots about what people do to them once they're out of that Mondeo and implanted into, say, a Westfield or an Elise. And yes, I appreciate that your engine is actually a new one rather than something out of scrapped car and may, therefore, have some sort of warranty attached to it. With the best will in the world, I doubt the performance of the Duratec in your Westfield is going to have a major positive or negative effect on Ford's advertising strategy ! Yer your right I did'nt read it as a donor engine. Be interesting to see what Ford themselves do with their Duratec engine, their bound to do something with it, if not now, does anyone know. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick M Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Well it looks like Cosworth do a lot of the WRC engine stuff, and I think it's fair to say they're not going to share their secrets with the likes of us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
predawson Posted March 12, 2004 Share Posted March 12, 2004 Of course a Zetec or Duratec is a better engine that an old pinto but you can get 160 bhp cheaply out of a pinto and still beat virtually everything you will come across on the road (accept other Westie's), You can upgrade to a Zetec or Duratec when funds allow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stew72 Posted March 13, 2004 Share Posted March 13, 2004 Don't knock the pinto! Yes I know it's heavy and pre historic but most owners could probably save more weight by going to the gym regularly rather than fitting a zetec. Oh and its kinda reassuring having a pool of oil where your westie stands in the garage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Hear hear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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