DonPeffers Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 If stats. say tier 3 needed urgently, don't wait 10 days, just enforce and chat about funding later. One problem could be irresponsible people in tier 3 taking a drive to nearby tier 1 for pub visit and lunch with friends. Advisory only against travel outside tier 3 so seems control is set to Sgt. Wilson, Dad's Army level......."would you mind awfully...if it's not too much trouble". Within tier 3, pubs must close unless they serve a substantial meal YET no legal definition of what represents such a meal.....problem?...bowl of micro rice? Unless we fancy lockdown then release then more lockdown/release ad infinitum it's essential covid Law is clear and enforced and test, trace , isolate works and is enforced. During full lockdown France had system whereby you had to visit Gov. website answer questions relating to reason for travel, obtain authority and print off document to carry to show Police. Would that be too onerous for us? Wales will enter new national lockdown 23 oct until 09 nov and says a further 2 week lockdown might be needed around Christmas. Cons. MP Steven Crabbe (Preseli Pembrokeshire) was on TV stating very low covid figures in his constituency and querying why lockdown was all Wales. He said of the 500 covid cases in Wales hospitals he understood half were hospital acquired infections. Need accurate data about covid admissions, including age, health and underlying, and when tested positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_l Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 3 hours ago, DonPeffers said: Need accurate data about covid admissions, including age, health and underlying, and when tested positive. A lot of info here: https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-hospital-activity/ One updated daily with admissions and when they tested positive. Not easy to interpret. Tough call anyway with an average incubation period of 5 days (range 1–11 days), at what point does a post-admission diagnosis mean it was hospital acquired? Another with detailed data for every trust, but only released once a month, up to date data would be interesting. In an NHS with approx. 120,000 beds normally identified for in-patients, which in November/December would be full of non-Covid sick people anyway, current admissions circa 900 a day and rising is very worrying, we may have reacted too late again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonPeffers Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 Thanks Jim. I've tried and often failed to get my head 'round the data on the Gov. links. I noticed 22 oct 2020 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8865487/Police-officer-charge-enforcing-lockdown-laws-makes-shocking-confession-MPs.html "Even I don't know the rules: Police officer in charge of enforcing UK's coronavirus lockdown laws makes shocking confession to MPs". It can't be easy driving thru different postcodes and tiers with different law/rules/regs. One street was tier 3 on one side but tier 2 on the other side. Also today on Sky news, MP Kit Malthouse got into a tiers rules muddle. You can have a meeting from 6 different households indoors if it's called a working lunch/meeting if I correctly understood Peston last night ITV. The only thing easy about full lockdown was ease of understanding but as Blatters pointed out it didn't prohibit in Law travel over any distance. From tomorrow Wales are introducing travel ban on tier 2 and 3 areas travelling into Wales during their 16 day 'circuit-breaker'. Need to see how that is policed. ANPR and random stops I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonPeffers Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 22 oct 2020 https://metro.co.uk/2020/10/22/barnsley-pensioner-83-says-i-dont-give-a-sod-about-new-tier-3-lockdown-13461599/ Fiesty 83 year old lady, in tier 3 area, lets rip. Also 22 oct 2020 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54643340 "Covid: Scots told to prepare for 'digital Christmas"....over 9 weeks away!!!!! ..."national clinical director Mr Leitch told BBC Scotland there was "absolutely no question" of a "normal" Christmas being allowed". Following Mr Leitch's comments, Scottish Lib Dem leader Willie Rennie said the (Scottish) government must allow an open public debate if it "expects months more of sacrifices". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 24 minutes ago, DonPeffers said: Need to see how that is policed. ANPR and random stops I guess. ANPR will identify the vehicle but not the occupants. Is it required that the owner incriminates the driver and any passengers? Can the Welsh Assembly actually limit or restrict the liberty of (lets say) me, to drive alone to a beauty spot, have a sandwich and nap making sure I observe social distancing, face covering etc (not usually required outside) and then drive back? I'd be more than happy to challenge any PCN received in court, especially as the trip helps with my mental health during these difficult times... Not that I have any Covid-19 related mental health issues. I've been barking for years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonPeffers Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, Blatman said: ANPR will identify the vehicle but not the occupants. Is it required that the owner incriminates the driver and any passengers? Can the Welsh Assembly actually limit or restrict the liberty of (lets say) me, to drive alone to a beauty spot, have a sandwich and nap making sure I observe social distancing, face covering etc (not usually required outside) and then drive back? I'd be more than happy to challenge any PCN received in court, especially as the trip helps with my mental health during these difficult times... Not that I have any Covid-19 related mental health issues. I've been barking for years... If driving someone else's car has it been sanitised to avoid covid spread? I am guessing Police will advise turn 'round and go back and if driver refuses then fine issued and recipient then decides on next action/court. Unless you actually drive into Wales when new rules in place your court challenge is theoretical. Happy to hear how you get on if you proceed; do give us an update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 Nothing wrong with postulating a theory for discussion... 3 minutes ago, DonPeffers said: If driving someone else's car has it been sanitised to avoid covid spread? How could that be proved either way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonPeffers Posted October 23, 2020 Author Share Posted October 23, 2020 On 22/10/2020 at 12:26, Blatman said: Nothing wrong with postulating a theory for discussion... How could that be proved either way? Ask a Policeman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonPeffers Posted October 23, 2020 Author Share Posted October 23, 2020 Just when I thought we were moving to a system of 3 covid tiers which might be simpler......https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54661494 Scotland to enter new five-level alert system from 02 Nov 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 On 23/10/2020 at 15:45, DonPeffers said: Ask a Policeman. Policemen are not lawyers. Something I ALWAYS bear in mind when dealing the boys in blue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 On 23/10/2020 at 16:13, DonPeffers said: Just when I thought we were moving to a system of 3 covid tiers which might be simpler......https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54661494 Scotland to enter new five-level alert system from 02 Nov 2020. Sturgeon again "proving" how independent Scotland is. Snore... If three levels was lambasted as too complicated, I'm betting 5 tiers will be a breeze... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve (sdh2903) Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 17 minutes ago, Blatman said: Sturgeon again "proving" how independent Scotland is. Snore... Indeed. She picked up on the fact whitty said the very high tier may not be enough and used it to prove a point yet again. At least she's not gone as power crazy as the Welsh Yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 I think the Welsh lockdown is a brave and actually very very good move given that vast swathes of the public can't be trusted... If it proves successful, pressure will mount for England and Scotland to follow suit. The key, as ever, is public compliance which, with a full lockdown, is easier to police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve (sdh2903) Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 6 minutes ago, Blatman said: I think the Welsh lockdown is a brave and actually very very good move Maybe yes maybe no. But once again the implementation is shocking. Rush it in with no real detail into the guidelines as has happened so many times. Can go buy a crate of Stella and get hammered. Can't buy a kettle to make a brew or buy your kid a new coat to go for a walk. Same in Scotland. Cafes can open restaurants can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 12 hours ago, Steve (sdh2903) said: Maybe yes maybe no. But once again the implementation is shocking. Rush it in with no real detail into the guidelines as has happened so many times. Can go buy a crate of Stella and get hammered. Can't buy a kettle to make a brew or buy your kid a new coat to go for a walk. Same in Scotland. Cafes can open restaurants can't. No argument from me there. Maybe we should suspend devolved government and have one hymn sheet. But Sturgeons head would explode. It would be funny, but not productive. I think the rules on "essentials" are being looked at tomorrow (Monday) according to the Welsh First Minister. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54676457 But like the first lockdown there is no list of what constitutes "essential", and to me there shouldn't be. If we accept that supermarkets have to be open then they should be free to sell, and the public free to buy, whatever is on the shelves, from knives to kettles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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