pistonbroke Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Thought this might interest any race fans / engineers out there Chan 5 8pm monday Crashes that changed racing !! might be worth a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Keene Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 and the first one is about Senna. Ten years ago in May... now I feel really old, what happened to the last decade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveD Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 the last decade has all been a stella blur the same as the next one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Albert Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Not wanting to prejudge but anyway The sadness for me is the dumbing down of these kinds of documentary, an example is the current series on Channel 4 called Spitfire Ace. The first episode pitched the reading age of the audience, like the Sun, at about 7 years. OK they mentioned the Hurricane but they didn't emphasize enough that 1. The Hurricane shot down 2 germans (fighters and bombers) for each contibution from the Spitfire, mostly because the Hurricane was much more stable which meant that it made a better gun platform. 2. The cockpit ergonomics where aweful, e.g. to retract the undercarriage the pilot immediately on takeoff had to take his left hand off the throttle, change hands on the stick, reach down with his right hand to the undercarriage lever and pump it several times to activate the hydraulics. Try pumping vigorously with your right hand and keeping your left hand absolutely still. 3. The undercarriage track was too narrow making the aircraft much more difficult to land and less practical to operate from rough strips 4. No mention of the engineer who developed the floatless carburettor that prevented the 109 (fuel injection) pilots from escaping in a dog fight by pushing over into a vertical dive leaving the merlin engined british fighters to cough and splutter for a few vital seconds under negative gee I will watch but I hope it won't be Ayrton Senna died but the real drama is did Williams try to cover up bad welding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Err,whats chan 5? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v7slr Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Channel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu999 Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 There was a documentary on a while ago investigating the untimely death of Senna, unfortunately I havent got a clue what it was called. It went in-depth into every aspect of the unfortunate weekend of the race in question, including in-car footage of the accident. The programme concluded that the steering column was very unlikely to be the cause of the crash, rather that it broke because of the crash. The cause? Alledgedly it was a devastating chain of events-Senna's own drive for perfection, and the incident that occured just before his own accident. Senna ran his car as close to the ground as possible, obviously giving a number of benefits, but one of the main ones in F1 at that time was downforce. As a result of the preceding incident, the tyres on his car would of apparently cooled sufficiently enough to reduce the pressure significantly inside them, and as a consequence the ride height dropped just a tad more. When the race restarted, Senna's car apparently grounded hard as it entered the corner. This alledgedly caused a huge loss in downforce, which meant no grip at the tyres, and as a result the car went straight on. He didnt have time to take any evasive action. Like I said, this was the conclusion of the programme not mine. Did anyone else see it? What was it called? And is bad welding possible, when we are talking F1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hilux Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 The sadness for me is the dumbing down of these kinds of documentary 15% of all ME109`s were destroyed upon landing due to the narrow wheel track width You couldnt easily bale out of one cos the canopy was hinged on one side and the air pressure at speed would keep it closed Negligible armour for the pilot Negligible rear vision (Spitfire had bubble canopy so you could see behind plane) Fuel tanks that incinerated the pilot Who said that the Germans were more technologically advanced......................... Spitfires rock IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DickieB Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Just finished. Confirms that motorbike riders are nuts. HANS is excellent - but why is it so expensive - £1000 - £1500. Well beyond the reach of club racers. Yes we go slower, but then we are far less fit than F1 drivers and therefore can withstand far less. If HANS was nearer £500 then I might be able to afford it, or persuade the old man to but it for me, but £1000+ is way too much. On a related issue, the other day I went to the UK research establishment that did the research on neck braces for the MSA. I had heard that neck braces were bad for you as they merely raised the breaking point by 2 vertabrae and therefore made the break deadly. This is not the case The neck brace prevents the head from rotating too far forward and over extending. What it does is induce shear forces as the head tries to move horizontally forward. The neck is much better at withstanding shear forces than extension and thus your life is saved. However if the accident is really hideous, then yes the final over-extension break will be 2 vertabrae higher, but then without the neck brace you would have died far earlier anyway. As a result of my visit, I went out and bought a neck brace and will race with it this year. It's a no brainer (no pun intended) Richard Brown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu999 Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Just finished. Confirms that motorbike riders are nuts. Understatement to say the least. BIG STEEL SPHERICALS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pistonbroke Posted January 19, 2004 Author Share Posted January 19, 2004 Definatley dummed down as you put it, but still enjoyable, inspite of the low key approach, Interested to see the comments about Dale Ernhart His accident caused a lot of comments about his race engineers making a hash of his harness installation. The Spitfire Saga goes on , really contravertial stuff. What was interesting was the fact that a private flier from Manchester flying club got the star prize. Big downer for the R.A.F. ! makes me wonder if theres undiscovered talent pedalling Westies around our highways ? Must tune in next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scruffythefirst Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I'd love to fly a really fast plane close to the ground, but the RAF won't have me (I'm blind and i can't cope with authority ) and its blooming expensive to learn to fly. Scruffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 What was interesting was the fact that a private flier from Manchester flying club got the star prize. Big downer for the R.A.F. ! Not so sure........ I reckon the Manchester Flying Club fella is far more used to small propellor driven planes than the RAF pilot, and his questions seemed to be from some-one who wanted to learn, as opposed to the RAF guy perhaps thought he had something to prove...... I'll be glued next week. Not for the dumbed down flying crap, but for the anecdotes of the actual WW2 pilots. Hero's to a man. Makes me proud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Keene Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Like I said, this was the conclusion of the programme not mine. Did anyone else see it? What was it called? I saw it and I can't remember for the life of me what it was called. But, I thought it was a very well researched programe and I think it gave the closest anybody will ever get to an answer as to why he crashed. But, as last nights program said, it should not have been a fatal accident, it was just bad luck the front wheel ended up where it did... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Albert Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Saw the program and was pleasantly surprised, although the director tried hard he failed... at least I don't read the News of the Sport and was able to watch to the end, although I came close to the off button when Zanardi's feet went one way and the rest of the car (and him) the other... Anybody notice the clip of Herbert's accident at Brands in F3000, ouch! And as for Doohan, words fail DickieB I agree that the HANS device is overkill for a Locost, after all it would be worth more than the car besides, from your evidence of last season it would appear that the whole car is a crumple zone Hilux I agree about the Spitfire from a pilot's perspective, it's like comparing Ferrari/Porsche in the hey day of sports car racing, one is sex on wheels (or wings), the other isn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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