Gaz_b88 Posted May 4, 2020 Author Share Posted May 4, 2020 7 hours ago, Dommo said: I think I must be the only person who is actively looking to significantly reduce the power output of their Westfield 😄 If you truly want big power, I won't advise against it. It has benefits, it has downsides. In hindsight, I probably wouldn't advocate it either. Done 'right', it doesn't make anything undrivable by any means. I'd say it changes the car from a go-kart maximum attack on the limit everywhere kind of thing, to a point and squirt machine. Not necessarily a bad thing, just different. Track days are probably a more relaxed affair with the turbo than without, as I don't need to improve around the corners, just make it round with the throttle balance and turbo spooled ready for the next straight! I will say though, I've not seen a cheaper way to big power than a Mazda SDV. What Model of car is this engine out of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAFKARM Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 that’s the car your thinking about . “capable of 500bhp but running low boost” 250+ in a Westfield will make a very, very fast car. (Not guaranteed to be fast though, that’s why you never see Mega S2000s on track days) 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dommo Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 The Mazda SDV uses MX5 Mk1-MK2.5 running gear... but if you've already got an engine it's perhaps a moot point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingster Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Gaz_b88 said: Are the S2000 the most powerful as standard? The ecoboost is the most powerful as standard (if there’s such a thing!) s2000 are powerful and a lovely motor but pretty heavy. if you want ballistic then go for a supercharged or turbo hayabusa - 400bhp and 400kg is “possible” - and there’s a twin turbo V8 (2x 4cyl bike engines made into one! ) being built that will be mental. 1 hour ago, Gaz_b88 said: 600kg the standard weight of these cars? There is no standard. But it’s about average. My Zetec with a cage is 554kg and Adam has built a track weapon that’s 390kg (I think @AdamR?) The options are endless! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 1 hour ago, RussH said: (Not guaranteed to be fast though, that’s why you never see Mega S2000s on track days) Do keep in mind that this is Russ winding various S2000 owners up, and not actually intended as helpful advice! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingster Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary said: Do keep in mind that this is Russ winding up anyone who happens to be in the vicinity and not a hint of helpful advice! Fixed that for you 😁 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 Just now, Chris King - Webmaster and Joint North East AO said: Fixed that for you 😁 Worrying how accurately you read my mind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 7 hours ago, Chris King - Webmaster and Joint North East AO said: The ecoboost is the most powerful as standard (if there’s such a thing!) s2000 are powerful and a lovely motor but pretty heavy. if you want ballistic then go for a supercharged or turbo hayabusa - 400bhp and 400kg is “possible” - and there’s a twin turbo V8 (2x 4cyl bike engines made into one! ) being built that will be mental. There is no standard. But it’s about average. My Zetec with a cage is 554kg and Adam has built a track weapon that’s 390kg (I think @AdamR?) The options are endless! I think that's the thing - so many options, it'd be a good idea to have a go in a few to get a flavour. Obviously tricky at this time but it really could help. As Chris said, I have got mine down to 385kg with a splash of fuel, but that is a bit of a special case. 500kg for a CEC (car engined car) is light, take 75kg off that for a BEC (bike engined car), ~50kg more than that for both engine variants is more normal. Once you start adding forced induction weights creep up significantly, packaging becomes an issue and IMO the added weight and dulled throttle response kills the joy of this sort of car. With just over 200bhp my car is very similar in straight line pace to my McLaren (up to 3 figures anyway) and whups it over a twisty lap, while being a hell of a lot more fun. You don't need huge power in these cars to go fast and give a huge grin! As Porkies car proves, they can take a lot of power with some serious development but it depends where you deem the fun to lie I guess. Clearly that particular car is no good in the corners but reaches some silly speeds down the straights 😄 To give you an idea of what's possible with 'only' 200bhp, but with weight and gearing optimised... Top of 3rd is 85mph... For me, weight wins. It helps you everywhere - acceleration, cornering, braking. Power only helps in one of these areas, and usually increases weight so therefore hinders in the other two. But a good shove in the back could be the major factor for deciding how to build your car, the options and variations are one of the best points of a kit car Cost is a factor for most people too - only a bike engine can you get 200bhp and a 6 speed sequential box for 2 grand, that weighs under 70kg... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingster Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 2 hours ago, AdamR said: With just over 200bhp my car is very similar in straight line pace to my McLaren (up to 3 figures anyway) and whups it over a twisty lap, while being a hell of a lot more fun. You don't need huge power in these cars to go fast and give a huge grin! And that my friends is what it’s all about! Unless... you like the “open top car” appeal and going for country lane runs in the sun - but guess what, you can build one that suits that purpose too (or something in between) 😁👍 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMc Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 Hi Mate, I Run a 2.0 ecoboost with 300bhp and 290 lbft @ 600Kg, which i can assure you is scary (but fun) fast! I would say any more than this and you're going to over power the chassis/weight which will probably ruin the fun of the car. With warmed up 215 wide rear tyres it just manages to put the power down, ill be going 245 wide next, so bear that in mind (wide arches/wide wheels etc) I moved form a 185bhp 100lbft @ 535Kg Bike engine'd MK and i still think I could (probably) "drive" that car faster than I can with this one, so that tells a story in its self With that amount of torque I had to strengthen the diff cage quite significantly to prevent the chassis twisting, but if you're starting off with a Sport 250/S2000 spec chassis you should just need some additional supports from the diff cage to the shock turret.(which means little to no boot space) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelO Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 @Gaz_b88 - once lockdown is over, get yourself along to one of the many regional meetings, or even better, to a weekend drive - there will almost always be a passenger ride available, and if you're lucky, you'll get to sample several different formats on the same day, ranging from the sensible to the deranged.... If you've anywhere near the Midlands, the Peak District runs are legendary, with the added bonus of compulsory cake / ice cream stops. You can bet that when lockdown is lifted, there will be a load of outings arranged, so keep your eye on the events section. There's almost always an initial meeting point, where you can leave your tin-top and I'm pretty sure somebody will get you back there to pick it up at the end of the day. Bring paracetamol though, as your face will ache from all the smiling... 😉 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz_b88 Posted May 5, 2020 Author Share Posted May 5, 2020 20 hours ago, RussH said: that’s the car your thinking about . “capable of 500bhp but running low boost” 250+ in a Westfield will make a very, very fast car. (Not guaranteed to be fast though, that’s why you never see Mega S2000s on track days) 12 hours ago, AdamR said: I think that's the thing - so many options, it'd be a good idea to have a go in a few to get a flavour. Obviously tricky at this time but it really could help. As Chris said, I have got mine down to 385kg with a splash of fuel, but that is a bit of a special case. 500kg for a CEC (car engined car) is light, take 75kg off that for a BEC (bike engined car), ~50kg more than that for both engine variants is more normal. Once you start adding forced induction weights creep up significantly, packaging becomes an issue and IMO the added weight and dulled throttle response kills the joy of this sort of car. With just over 200bhp my car is very similar in straight line pace to my McLaren (up to 3 figures anyway) and whups it over a twisty lap, while being a hell of a lot more fun. You don't need huge power in these cars to go fast and give a huge grin! As Porkies car proves, they can take a lot of power with some serious development but it depends where you deem the fun to lie I guess. Clearly that particular car is no good in the corners but reaches some silly speeds down the straights 😄 To give you an idea of what's possible with 'only' 200bhp, but with weight and gearing optimised... Top of 3rd is 85mph... For me, weight wins. It helps you everywhere - acceleration, cornering, braking. Power only helps in one of these areas, and usually increases weight so therefore hinders in the other two. But a good shove in the back could be the major factor for deciding how to build your car, the options and variations are one of the best points of a kit car Cost is a factor for most people too - only a bike engine can you get 200bhp and a 6 speed sequential box for 2 grand, that weighs under 70kg... To be honest that looks more than fast enough! im tempted to scrap the idea to be honest and keep it simple and go with the 2.0 ecoboost! 8 hours ago, DMc said: Hi Mate, I Run a 2.0 ecoboost with 300bhp and 290 lbft @ 600Kg, which i can assure you is scary (but fun) fast! I would say any more than this and you're going to over power the chassis/weight which will probably ruin the fun of the car. With warmed up 215 wide rear tyres it just manages to put the power down, ill be going 245 wide next, so bear that in mind (wide arches/wide wheels etc) I moved form a 185bhp 100lbft @ 535Kg Bike engine'd MK and i still think I could (probably) "drive" that car faster than I can with this one, so that tells a story in its self With that amount of torque I had to strengthen the diff cage quite significantly to prevent the chassis twisting, but if you're starting off with a Sport 250/S2000 spec chassis you should just need some additional supports from the diff cage to the shock turret.(which means little to no boot space) Is the 2.0 ecoboost out of a mk2 focus ST? Its good to find out these things lie the wide wheels and arches early so i can order them from the factory. Do you have any pics where you strenghthend the diff cage? Also what box and diff does this set up use? and is the standard westfield prop upto the job? Thanks 8 hours ago, NigelO said: @Gaz_b88 - once lockdown is over, get yourself along to one of the many regional meetings, or even better, to a weekend drive - there will almost always be a passenger ride available, and if you're lucky, you'll get to sample several different formats on the same day, ranging from the sensible to the deranged.... If you've anywhere near the Midlands, the Peak District runs are legendary, with the added bonus of compulsory cake / ice cream stops. You can bet that when lockdown is lifted, there will be a load of outings arranged, so keep your eye on the events section. There's almost always an initial meeting point, where you can leave your tin-top and I'm pretty sure somebody will get you back there to pick it up at the end of the day. Bring paracetamol though, as your face will ache from all the smiling... 😉 It would be nice to get a ride in a couple and see how they put the power down and handle. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMC Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 On 04/05/2020 at 11:20, RobH72 said: 400 turbo charged horses in a Westfield will be a real handful! Have a look on YouTube, there's a guy with a Nissan 200sx engine in a Locost with circa 300bhp. It's all but undriveable, it lights up the rears every time the turbo comes on boost! My properly set up 230 ish bhp Mega S2000 is more than enough for my level of talent 😂 As for you height, I'm 6ft 5 and fit fine with the lowered floors, floor mounted pedals and quick release wheel. Once lockdown is over, come to one of the meets and blag a ride. I'm sure you'll be surprised how quick they are! Hi Rob, I'm also 6ft 5 and looking to purchase my first Westfield. You mention lowered floors, floor mounted pedals and quick release wheel - are these modifications that you've made of are these standard items? Thanks John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 Floor mounted pedals have been normal on most wide body cars for a long, long time. The SEiGHTS I think, may have been the last models to have top mount pedals. Lowered floors have been standard across all the chassis for ten years or so. Wheel choice is purely down to the builder/owner, once IVA is out of the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz_b88 Posted May 5, 2020 Author Share Posted May 5, 2020 13 hours ago, DMc said: Hi Mate, I Run a 2.0 ecoboost with 300bhp and 290 lbft @ 600Kg, which i can assure you is scary (but fun) fast! I would say any more than this and you're going to over power the chassis/weight which will probably ruin the fun of the car. With warmed up 215 wide rear tyres it just manages to put the power down, ill be going 245 wide next, so bear that in mind (wide arches/wide wheels etc) I moved form a 185bhp 100lbft @ 535Kg Bike engine'd MK and i still think I could (probably) "drive" that car faster than I can with this one, so that tells a story in its self With that amount of torque I had to strengthen the diff cage quite significantly to prevent the chassis twisting, but if you're starting off with a Sport 250/S2000 spec chassis you should just need some additional supports from the diff cage to the shock turret.(which means little to no boot space) Is the 2.0 ecoboost out of a mk2 focus ST? Its good to find out these things lie the wide wheels and arches early so i can order them from the factory. Do you have any pics where you strenghthend the diff cage? Also what box and diff does this set up use? and is the standard westfield prop upto the job? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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