Policing in an impossible world

[Nemesis]

A bit of a rant and some self opinion, I don't intend to offend.

 

A couple of years ago whilst the Sage and I were on holiday, my garage got visited by some traveler types, they obtained some tools, a battery from the ASBO and anything else that was easily appropriated.

 

In the unfruitful attempt to get the 5 spare wheels and tires that make up my wet set they knocked one of my cycle carriers from the rafters and some blood did flow, quite a bit of it !

 

The conversation with the police over the phone came close to breaking my law abiding spirit..... to sum it up the plod said "it doesn't matter that there's blood over your car, we can sample it for DNA but to be honest it's not worth the aggro"

 

So does that mean that they don't want to take on the travelers? It certainly left me with that impression.  

 

Lets fast forward to yesterday, I was deeply saddened to read of the death of a police officer, who was simply doing his job.

 

"But that's life" many will say, "it goes with the territory".

 

Come forward to today and the news reports.....a traveler site and the occupants thereof have been named......

 

I can't help but think that the police reluctance to challenge the illegal activities of these "tribes" of travelers has led to these "tribes" thinking that they are untouchable.

 

To run anyone over with intent is abhorrent, but to run down a copper doing his job just beggars belief, I'm not an ....ist of any description, but I hope with all my heart that the actions of these tribal vermin will at last bite them in the A*se..... I hope every police officer in the UK will now focus a new level of energy in dealing with this disgusting class of humanity.

 

I'll shut up now before I get a ban.

 

Nem..........

[Jude - The Mad Widow]

Well said Nem, we have a permanent site full of travellers if that's not an oxymoron. Rumour has it the police are afraid to approach them despite evidence of their thieving because they have guns. 

I'm tired and angry of the louts and thieves giving the police the finger.  Locally one of our officers had her car vandalised by lads she had reprimanded Nothing done about it... Currently 2 members of my family are in the police and the things they do... Collecting body parts from accidents for example...

Grrr makes me mad. 

[tolf]

2 hours ago, Jude - The Mad Widow said:

Well said Nem, we have a permanent site full of travellers if that's not an oxymoron. Rumour has it the police are afraid to approach them despite evidence of their thieving because they have guns. 

I'm tired and angry of the louts and thieves giving the police the finger.  Locally one of our officers had her car vandalised by lads she had reprimanded Nothing done about it... Currently 2 members of my family are in the police and the things they do... Collecting body parts from accidents for example...

Grrr makes me mad. 

If the travellers have guns then call 999 and send in SO19. They wont tolerate guns

[Paul Hurdsfield - Joint Manchester AO]

When they feature in documentaries they talk about "the gypsy code"

Yeah right.

Steal what you can when you can and from anyone one you can.

Do not follow any normal rules of civilised behaviour.

Ignore and do not co operate with any form of authority.

 

Have i missed anything?

It's time the authorities came down  very hard on these scum of the earth.

 

[jeff oakley]

The authorities have created this by giving then special status and the police are in fear of them and the repercussions of being accused of racist behaviour. 

 

If I were in charge I would unleash the tax man and the department for looking at the proceeds of crime and go after  them with full support of swat teams etc. There is no way that they all make legitimate incomes and they prosper.

 

As you experienced when they are involved the response is less than perfect. In London some years ago they took a saw to a huge piece of copper cable that ran outside a bus depot. This was worth a lot of cash, no one challenged them and the result was a huge area had no computers or phones for 4 or 5 days as this cable had to come from Sweden then be spliced in. Now you would not need to be Poirot to workout that would go to a scrap yard and turning up with 3 ton of copper is not an every day event. Why did they catch no one?

 

We recently had a visit and the leader asked us for £5k to move otherwise they would be there for a long time, we declined their kind offer and offered to block them in if they did not move with old vehicles which they could damage as much as they wanted. They moved but the police were not interested as it was a civil matter.

 

A different approach was taken by police when they camped at Windsor near to Harry's place, armed officers arrived and an hour later they were on their way, this should be the approach to all of them. Strip their rights to camp where they want unless it is in a horse drawn carriage.

 

And when they turn up in A&E to be fixed up they make such a fuss that they get seen quicker to get rid of them as the security guards, usually a retired overweight man, cannot cope with them.

 

I have met a few good Gypsies who are decent people but they are the minority.

 

What we can do is never buy goods that are too cheap to be true. Whilever they have a outlet for stolen goods they will steal.

[Jude - The Mad Widow]

@jeff oakley well said. It's time the good guys rose up. These louts are in the minority but we complacent, last month my local Aldi car park was full of new caravans and expensive cars.. They had immediately gone into aldi and started stealing, when challenged they abused the staff verbally and physically. Relieved to say they were moved on the very next day by the police...

In addition to this we now have louts in my sleepy market town.. They get away with petty crimes for lots of reasons. They don't scare me and I would face them in the street if I saw them. 

 

Ms Angry of Buckinghamshire. 

[TAFKARM]

46 minutes ago, Jude - The Mad Widow said:

@jeff oakley well said. It's time the good guys rose up. These louts are in the minority but we complacent, last month my local Aldi car park was full of new caravans and expensive cars.. They had immediately gone into aldi and started stealing, when challenged they abused the staff verbally and physically. Relieved to say they were moved on the very next day by the police...

In addition to this we now have louts in my sleepy market town.. They get away with petty crimes for lots of reasons. They don't scare me and I would face them in the street if I saw them. 

 

Ms Angry of Buckinghamshire. 

 

Thats why I only shop in Waitrose!

[jeff oakley]

1 hour ago, Meatibald Archpants said:

 

Thats why I only shop in Waitrose!

 

They moved into our local Waitrose in Chipping Sodbury and as a result they had to get security guards in to deny access to the store to them. Basically they send their kids in to steal knowing that as soon as anyone lays a finger on them they cry assault. 

 

They left the car park looking like a rubbish tip as they fly tipped the rubbish gullible people had payed them to remove. It is sadly the way they operate at the moment. It took a few days for the legal process to grind through.

 

This is what needs changing as well, as soon as they turn up injunction given within the hour police sent to move them on if they refuse then arrest them and fine them massivley.

 

Many years ago Bristol city council planned a new huge traveller site near Avonmouth away from the main homes of others in the area. They successfully argued that this site was unsuitable due to air quality from the nearby works that are there. So it did not get built, this was the same air that the residents of Sea Mills and Avonmouth breath happily. 

 

I have to take my hat off to them as they know the law and use it to do what they want. 

[Lyonspride]

23 hours ago, jeff oakley said:

The authorities have created this by giving then special status and the police are in fear of them and the repercussions of being accused of racist behaviour. 

 

 

Pretty much this ^^

Some left wing studenty vegan types and BBC indoctrinated stay at home yummy mummies, have decided that the travelling community are to be a protected minority, largely those who live in areas unaffected by their behaviour, ie affluent out of town areas.

Thanks to them we can't tackle the problems they cause, just as we can't tackle radical religious extremists. The difference of course being that a very large proportion of travellers are actively involved in criminal behaviour, you sort of have to be if it's impossible to get and hold down a normal job due to your way of life.

[MrPid]

I would also say the media has had a huge influence in celebrating this demographic.

 

With programs like "My Big Fat Gypsy Girl", or whatever its called are aired twenty times a week, with accompanying spin offs it just exacerbates the problem and encourages their self righteous attitude. Young people seem to be in awe of their lack of morals or respect, like its a good thing?..... and the hypocrisy of talking about respect when you have none is incredible!

 

I was genuinely sad to hear of that officer losing his life at such a young age after just being married. His life was only just beginning.

 

I truly hope that they do their upmost to make sure those responsible are charged and punished. 

 

RIP PC Harper

[Mark Stanton]

Very sadly the "its too much trouble" approach is not confined just to the UK ...... a few years ago my workshop in Brittany was turned over by a man in a new blue transit van with a UK regional accent not too dissimilar from residents of Rathkiel (jeez its so hard to be PC) - anyways this person, after emptying my workshop of various power tools and generator then proceeded to knock on local doors and sell my stuff  ..... it wasn't purchased locally .......... All details and info given to the Gendarmes ..... to which they advised to claim on insurance

 

Last week my other halfs offices were closed due to an invasion of caravans - with anyone going near being harassed, office electrics tapped into, filth left strewn everywhere

 

All in the name of "its our tradition"

 

RIP PC Harper

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

The nearest significant town to me is High Wycombe and the council/police have been chasing a group of itinerants from car park to sports field to factory site for weeks now. I don't know if it is always the same caravans but their sites seem to be chronologically sequential - from pillar to post with hours between only so I imagine so. The council now have a court order/injunction on 100+ areas of council land so the 'travellers' are now using commercial and private land. It really has got beyond a joke and central government must make trespass a criminal offence instead of a mere civil one. Ireland did this and as if by magic their problem becomes ours.

[Nemesis]

Wow.... I never expected the replies that have been posted, there is clearly an empathy for my state of mind and the world at large, could I be bold enough to request that we as a club might send a floral tribute to the funeral of PC Harper?

 

I'd be happy to contribute to any funds required.

 

A saddened and humble Nem.......

 

 

[jeff oakley]

2 hours ago, Man On The Clapham Omnibus said:

The nearest significant town to me is High Wycombe and the council/police have been chasing a group of itinerants from car park to sports field to factory site for weeks now. I don't know if it is always the same caravans but their sites seem to be chronologically sequential - from pillar to post with hours between only so I imagine so. The council now have a court order/injunction on 100+ areas of council land so the 'travellers' are now using commercial and private land. It really has got beyond a joke and central government must make trespass a criminal offence instead of a mere civil one. Ireland did this and as if by magic their problem becomes ours.

 

I agree, but I suspect that it is only councils who have already spent millions of pounds of taxpayers money providing enough legitimate sites for them to stay on, who can do this. As I understand it if the council has failed to do this they are run rings around them by the travellers who know the law inside out.

 

Making things criminal is a great idea so long as we have the will to enforce it and that then brings up all sorts of other issues. If you seize caravans they become homeless and then what. There was an article in one of the caravan club magazines where a couple tracked their caravan to a site and the police were asked to attend. The happy go lucky heather selling inhabitant said he had bought it, even had a receipt from a man who he had never met before. The police were said to have declined to seize the caravan as that would render said man and his family homeless.

 

If that was a car you or I had bought it would have been on the back of a low loader within the hour and we would be out of pocket. I despair sometimes how pathetic we have become driven by those who see them through their rose tinted islington windows as harmless dog lovers who are misunderstood. There is no easy answer as getting a genie back in a bottle is almost impossible.

 

And what saddens me more is the outrage we all feel at the moment over the death of this police officer, will soon pass, and I suspect those responsible will not get adequate punishment. We have felt this rage too often, PC Blakelock stabbed during the riots in London or Nicola Hughes and Fiona Bone shot by Dale Cregan  just three names I remember who lost their lives but look on line and see just how many have lost their lives it is shocking, but as I said it will soon pass until the next time and little practical will be done.

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

1 hour ago, jeff oakley said:

 

The police were said to have declined to seize the caravan as that would render said man and his family homeless.

 

If that was a car you or I had bought it would have been on the back of a low loader within the hour and we would be out of pocket. I despair sometimes how pathetic we have become driven by those who see them through their rose tinted islington windows as harmless dog lovers who are misunderstood. There is no easy answer as getting a genie back in a bottle is almost impossible.

 

This logic is used a lot these days, it's used against genuine Landlords to stop them evicting housing tenants who aren't paying and together with the current taxation changes have meant many are getting out of this market.  Which off cause will increase homelessness as less places available. 

 

Any group like travellers ( they aren't true Gipsy's) who get special treatment almost always backfires. So sad to see the effect of this one.