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DonPeffers

Worst Prime Minister competition.

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DonPeffers

today  https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1137931/Brexit-news-David-Cameron-UK-EU-withdrawal-referendum-Theresa-May-poll-latest

 

with Headline      'David Cameron shamed as 'WORST ever Prime Minister' for triggering Brexit mess.'

 

Reading the article it seems there is some debate over whether May or Cameron has the top spot.

 

Bring into the mix Blair, Baldwin, Eden, Chamberlain and it might seem choosing UK PMs hasn't gone well in the past. Is Lord North of the hook yet for losing America?

 

Likely it's time to move away from a two-party, first-past-the-post-system of voting with the excessive power the PM then has.

 

If a political Party manifesto is to mean anything then its implementation has to be binding or a new election must be called.

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Jude - The Mad Widow

Fine topic,  its time for a huge change but what are the chances of it happening.. We need a political revolution and I don't know where new and able leaders would come from... Money / class rules? 

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CraigHew

I think the net PM is a done-deal.....BoJo.......!

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Alan France

I get to vote on the final two so you can trust me!

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jeff oakley

The problem with any poll like that is history has a effect on perspective. At the time many in the North thought Thatcher was the devil incarnate and yet now she is seen even up there by many as what we needed at that time like her or not.

 

For my money I would say Blair was by far the worst because he changed politics from one where debate was good to one where personality and spin was the most important. Faux tears over the "Peoples princess death" epitomised the depths he would plunge to win favour. It was the start of ministers and MP's not resigning over their shortcomings, now they only resign in a fit of pique against the manifesto they supported to get elected, certainly now being a criminal, anti-Semite, racist, corrupt, liar or sexual deviant is not something to resign over .

 

Cameron is up there but he made an error of judgement that had catastrophic consequences, May was to fall guy who was stuck with it as no one else wanted the job at that time. Now if BoJo gets it and delivers Brexit he will be seen as a great PM by many again for the wrong reason    

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Gerry H

 

The OP missed another likely couple of contenders in Wilson & Callaghan. Another pair who left the counry broke and broken.

 

 

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Man On The Clapham Omnibus

Don't forget Fred Teeth (Ho ho ho) 

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Blatman

Been saying it for years... Thatcher will be remembered as one of the best leaders of the 20th Century and possibly beyond, although the more I think about the list of PM's who really sucked, it actually starts to denigrate her achievements. 

 

I tend to agree that Blair/Brown were among the worst and again history will bear this out. To be fair I believe the Tories have managed to bring the deficit down significantly as they always do but that's enactable/enacted policy rather than pure leadership.

 

Cameron triggered Brexit because there was an appetite for it in the country which the referendum proved. May got the poison challis because no-one else wanted it and I have some sympathy for her, but not for sticking doggedly to the one deal she thinks she negotiated.

 

Wilson was in the pockets of the Unions, Ted Heath was crippled by strikes leading to the three day week leading to Wilson (again) then Callaghan, who was toppled by Thatcher following a vote of no confidence. Major kept us out of the Euro, possibly the single best accidental political decision of all time!

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DonPeffers
15 hours ago, jeff oakley said:

The problem with any poll like that is history has a effect on perspective. At the time many in the North thought Thatcher was the devil incarnate and yet now she is seen even up there by many as what we needed at that time like her or not

 

Cameron is up there but he made an error of judgement that had catastrophic consequences, May was to fall guy who was stuck with it as no one else wanted the job at that time. Now if BoJo gets it and delivers Brexit he will be seen as a great PM by many again for the wrong reason    

 

We may move in different circles but Thatcher is still very widely hated up here for destroying communities/jobs while selling off State assets to further enrich the wealthy and create yuppies. She isn't on the 'worst list' because some view her policies as being beneficial.

 

Cameron made a lot more than one error of judgement. He called a vote he didn't have to and stated on the eve of the EU referendum that within hours of a Leave vote he would have activated article 50, yet instead resigned and ran away. On the same platform with Cameron stood Osborne stating a Leave vote would mean £4300 pa off salary, a 2p increase in basic income tax (from emergency Budget within hours of a Leave vote) and 20% of the value of your house.

 

May applied for the PM post then called a disastrous 2017 General Election, refusing debates, introducing the so-called "dementia tax" mid-campaign only to drop it 4 days later while insisting nothing has changed when challenged by the press over an obvious policy U-turn. May's election gamble turned 331 Tory seats into 318 and when asked by Sophie Ridge (Sky) if she regretted calling the election she did not.

 

Now we have the already failed bunch promising they have the plan to sort Brexit, Policing, Schools, fairer taxation, NHS and also unite the Country. No clarity from Gove yet on plans to replace VAT after Brexit with a "lower, simpler" sales tax if he is elected Conservative leader so unclear if 5% VAT on domestic energy would rise to the new Sales tax rate or if zero VAT would remain on food, children's clothes, reading material.

 

https://fullfact.org/economy/public-debt/  In May 2010, when the Con/Dem Coalition began, the national debt inherited from Labour (excluding debt held by public sector banks) was £1.03 trillion. As of March 2019 it had risen to £1.80 trillion. The latest figure is £1.94 Tn. 

 

With Politicians it's often more important to focus on what they don't say.

 

It begs the question what are they all on now??

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Man On The Clapham Omnibus

Blair and his acolytes changed the face of Britain permanently. Not by their immigration policy per se (although that was dramatic in itself), but by the sheer speed with which it was indiscriminately enacted. The genie is out and can never be returned. Their policy of multi-cultural Britain was flawed because it discourages integration. Multi-ethnic or multi-racial Britain (call it what you wish) with emphasis on becoming properly British in attitude and culture might have led to far less division and strife.

 

I would support a continuing practice of state support of the truly unfortunate and vulnerable provided safeguards were installed to prevent it from becoming a lifestyle choice. What I resent about the current opposition and the mindset engendered in their supporters is the hatred of anyone who has succeeded in their lives, and the avowed intention to reduce everyone to a similar level of deprivation. Not seen seen Dennis Healy's aim to "...squeeze the rich until their pips squeak!" The George Monbiot report calling for a Land Value Tax is typical of the politics of envy. I left school (secondary modern) with two 'O' Levels and did a five year apprenticeship at a major manufacturer of domestic appliances. During that five years I was moved from toolmaking to the labs in Engineering Dept. and I acquired qualifications in polymer technology at the National College of Rubber Technology in Holloway Road. Since then I have worked in a couple of other disciplines and never been in receipt of a penny in benefits except child allowance. My wife and I bought a house twenty miles out in order to be able to afford to buy. We lived frugally, not having even a telephone or a TV set for some years, and travelled in a ten year old Herald until it gave up the ghost. Everything we have we worked hard for and apart from a small inheritance later on in our lives, we have paid for everything. I am damned if I am going to vote for anyone whose aim is to take that away from us just because we were careful enough not to spend on lavish holidays and new cars. To Hell with them! We have paid all our taxes in full and on time; we owe nobody a single penny. We're both from working class families who also worked all their lives. In what way do we qualify as privileged? 

 

I'm sure all of the above could apply to many other members on here and I apologise for the rant. :getmecoat:

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Man On The Clapham Omnibus

The National Debt will continue to rise while there's a deficit. The figures you should be quoting are these:

P0HUmVZ.png

 

 

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DonPeffers
2 minutes ago, Man On The Clapham Omnibus said:

The National Debt will continue to rise while there's a deficit. 

 

 

Yes there will be no debt reduction while running a deficit every year. Can't ignore nearly doubling the national debt though as it will have to be repaid sometime. I recall Osborne talking about 'fixing the roof while sun shining' ie. running a surplus in the good years but that hasn't happened yet.

I don't see Corbyn becoming PM as he seems to shoot himself in the foot at every opportunity.

 

14 minutes ago, Man On The Clapham Omnibus said:

bought a house twenty miles out in order to be able to afford to buy. We lived frugally, not having even a telephone or a TV set for some years,

 

Similar to yourself MOTCO; bought house miles out of town re. affordability, no telephone for 7 years, a 12 inch black and white TV for a couple of years and negligible furniture for a good while.

 

A rant is very beneficial I reckon.

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jeff oakley

I knew Arthur Scargill as all my family worked in the mines, my Dad was a union official and he was more interested in pulling the Tories down than the collateral of who would get hurt. You are right that she is still hated by many but there is a realisation that the mines would have closed and steel would go to the cheapest bidder eventually. What they need to do is move on and let's be honest Labour had 13 years to do something about the plight of those areas affected and did nothing.

 

What she had was a backbone and was for Britain first and stood up to others for the UK. 

 

As others have said the problem with politics is that is is always seen one way by some one way by others. Like MOTCO, I too have worked hard for everything I have, I had to move away from S.Yorks because of the miners strike to find work, to Bristol where work was plentiful. Others stayed behind unwilling to move and are still bitter about their lives.

I agree with MOTCO I could never vote for anyone who wants to steal our assets and to force us to in the end handover everything to pay if we need care in our old age.

 

I still maintain Blair was the worst, but there are so many who failed to deliver their promises and just maybe there is a change and people want a leader who will deliver on a manifesto promise.

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Blatman
On 09/06/2019 at 12:09, DonPeffers said:

In May 2010, when the Con/Dem Coalition began, the national debt inherited from Labour (excluding debt held by public sector banks) was £1.03 trillion. As of March 2019 it had risen to £1.80 trillion. The latest figure is £1.94 Tn.

 

Small point of order, national debt is not the same as the deficit.

 

Yuppies were created by the computerisation of the Stock Market which opened it up. The money made from Gas, Electricity, Rail and BT sell-offs is but a drop in a very big ocean.

 

On 09/06/2019 at 19:40, jeff oakley said:

and to force us to in the end handover everything to pay if we need care in our old age.

 

50 quids worth of advice from a specialist solicitor can turn that around very easily. Been there, done that, preparing for my turn already...

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DonPeffers
12 hours ago, Blatman said:

 

Small point of order, national debt is not the same as the deficit.

 

 

That'll be why the words are different.

 

Deficit is the yearly overspend where Government expenditure exceeds income but the way deficit can be calculated varies and can be manipulated.

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