What next, cameras for noise!

[Blatman]

And on the technical side, how will a "camera" distinguish between exhaust, induction, tyre/road noise and even when there is more than one vehicle in the detection zone?

That's before we get to aircraft/helicopters, power tools, lawn mowers and any number of things that could make noise in the vicinity of the mic. I appreciate there is likely to be some directional capability on these things but even so... 

[Simon Marks - North Oxfordshire AO]

As a sound scrutineer at rallies, we have to static test to a very accurate and consistent procedure - as do the IVA examiners.  Measuring the exhaust noise at 0.5m, measures pretty well exclusively exhaust noise and we are tested for 100dB(A) at 3/4 maximum revs.

 

Once you start testing further away, other elements come into the equation - induction noise, other nearby vehicles, aiircraft and (if you were to test to 72dB(A) as has been suggested above, then people speaking would have a noticeable effect.

 

I believe that the manufacturers test their cars on a rolling road, in a contained chamber so these allow for tyre,engine and exhaust noise whilst isolating other factors.

 

To have a meter at the side of the road trigger an instant penalty would, I feel, be fraught with difficulty due to outside influences and, even, where the test was taken relative to the vehicle accelerating - i.e peak revs for some cars may be less revs on others due to gearing.

 

I visited one of the Belgian circuits (I think Nivelles) many years ago on an MSA Euroclassic Tour.  Word quickly went round as to where the circuit's static noise meters were and drivers of the louder cars chose to back off a little at those points to continue to enjoy the circuit.

 

I feel it would be fairer if the automatic meters / cameras led to an instruction for the vehicle to be presented for a test at an IVA centre for a proper examination.

 

Where I live, on a 40mph limit straight piece of road, we currently have two pests.  One lad on a motorbike that I followed (two cars behind the other evening) and could hear it over my radio in my old Skoda Octavia VRS.  The second is another young driver, this time of a Honda Civic with large bore stainless steel exhaust.  I ended up following him this morning in my Lotus Sunbeam and could hear him accelerating despite the din inside my 40 year old, twin side draught carburettored,  hatchback.  He did a 360 degree turn behind me at a roundabout leading onto a de-restricted straight road (I think to look at my car) and he followed me into our village and when I had to wait for oncoming traffic to clear before turning into my drive, he gave it the full VTEC with associated noise and tyre squeal from a standing start behind me.  I suppose that was to impress me.  If that was his aim, he failed but it is because of children like him that these measures are being implemented.

 

Simon

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

2 hours ago, Blatman said:

And on the technical side, how will a "camera" distinguish between exhaust, induction, tyre/road noise and even when there is more than one vehicle in the detection zone?

That's before we get to aircraft/helicopters, power tools, lawn mowers and any number of things that could make noise in the vicinity of the mic. I appreciate there is likely to be some directional capability on these things but even so... 

Not to mention the car alarms that a passing Seven might set off...

[pistonbroke]

HM Gov might be better off selling earplugs , much more cost effective 

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

10 hours ago, pistonbroke said:

HM Gov might be better off selling earplugs , much more cost effective 

 

No Bernie, they wouldn't do that because it would prevent us hearing their 'message'!

[Lyonspride]

On 09/06/2019 at 13:49, Simon Marks - North Oxfordshire AO said:

 it is because of children like him that these measures are being implemented.

 

 

 

I thought this at first, but there's been quite a bit of talk about motorbikes in reference to these cameras, I get the feeling the real problem is toffee nosed village dwellers having a dislike for bikers, of which there are countless more passing through on a daily basis than there would be your typical boy racer.

[DamperMan]

If I was a local resident of a village plagued by motorcycles making a lot of noise i’d Be grateful of a quiet zone..  much like you’d be grateful as a resident for a speed limit in your village.     The 2 mostly go hand in hand.   Most loud cars/bikes can be pretty quiet if driven responsibly.  Much like just because your car can do 130 it can do 20 outside a school at closing time.       The trouble is this will just become a Tax generator and the law applied not for safety or noise polution where it counts...   Like my recent speeding ticket.       Middle of nowhere, straight road, clear visibility, dry, and safe overtaking on double carriageway road.   Nothing to do with safety,  just upkeeping the law and taxing.      I would argue for safety your a lot less likely to be run over by a 309 diesel in the car park/ built up area than a silent Tesla..    I bet driving a tesla early morning you are running over rabbits and hedgehogs  all the time and swerving larger wildlife...  

 

 

[Simon Marks - North Oxfordshire AO]

We have a speed camera on the 40mph restricted straight road past our house.  Once past the camera, some people accelerate hard to well past the legal speed limit.  As you say, a lot of fast cars and bikes do not cause any offence when driven / ridden considerately but a number of those who accelerate hard are in charge of less discreet vehicles that cause nuisance.  I can, therefore, suggest that the speed camera actually leads to increased noise nuisance - interestingly, it doesn't seem to be catching anyone speeding (not appearing on the recent County Council list of offences / revenues that was recently published in our local newspaper) so speed compliance in the 100 yards past the camera seems to be good.

 

In years gone by, I have been involved in night road rallying, both as a competitor and marshal / organiser.  You only have to stand out in the country at a time control to appreciate how far sound can travel and when you visit householders to inform them of a rally's passing, you get to hear residents' concerns.  Sound from the rally cars is regulated, tested and controlled and these measures mitigate the impact on the locals (as has been acknowledged to me by residents I have visited post rallies).  This makes me habitually try to back off through hamlets and villages when out late at night.

 

I am a village dweller, hopefully not a toffee-nosed one, hence have singled out only a couple of repeat offenders (of my ears and peace) due to their persistent antisocial driving / riding well into the night.  Monday evenings in the summer sees a bike night at a nearby village where over 1,000 motorcycles can gather if the weather is good.  Many, many bikes come past our house heading towards or from such meetings, but it is only once a month and the noise is generally over by 10.30pm, so we put up with it as it is not an everyday occurrence.  I am sure that the bikers are asked to ride considerately in the area of the meetings and this request seems to be heeded by the majority.  We also hear horns used to manage sailing regattas on a nearby reservoir, we have aircraft overhead on their way into RAF Brize Norton (now a very busy airport) - but modern aircraft are much quieter than was Concorde which used to do laps in the 1970s pilot training.  Helicopters engaged in low altitude training can be very intrusive - even scaring our cats to run into the house to take cover on occasions. 

 

Towns and villages have different nuisances that are part of everyday life these days.  Once the nuisance exceeds the norm, interest is taken.