Future use of list 1C tyres

[Terry Everall]

It would be interesting to know people's thoughts on the continued use of list 1C tyres in our championship.This was done as people has existing tyres etc and did not want to reduce their times by using list 1A or 1B in road going classes. This is certainly an issue that is not easy to resolve with our current system of Target Times when records were set on list 1C tyres in classes C, D,,E and

[Marto303]

So to follow on from my previous post

@Terry Everall - WSCC Competition Secretary

So what is your future view of the class structure if wedrop the use of 1c tyres in C to F ? 

The reason I ask is because I feel we have a well developed class structure that allows and encourages drivers to move from road going right through unlimited at present. This can be achieved with technical advances on the car as the driver feels their ability and bank balance can cope with.

If we drop the use of 1c tyres from C - F how do we restructure the classes to continue this progression? 

Like many others I will be running in another championship this year along side our own Speed Series. In this series the classes follow MSUK blue book structure with a massive jump from roadgoing to mod prod ( I don’t really feel I fit in either ) I would have to spend yet more money to either drop back or be competitive in moving up, but they offer more of the events I enjoy attending so I’m in it for the events. 

I don’t want the WSCC Speed Series to feel like that ! 

 

 

[Terry Everall]

I agree with your comments Martin and  that is why list 1C tyres were kept and our class structure is what it is. If we do drop 1C then we have a massive issue with our scoring system.

We have listened to competitors and are trying to minimise changes

[Marto303]

Then why change ? 

[graham frankland]

Terry

I put my response to your question on the original thread in 2019 Regs

Can you move it over to this thread please?

Thanks

G

[Keith the Teeth]

Howard and I discussed moving from 1B to 1C tyres. for 2019, as mentioned by Alex in his 2019 Speed Series Regulations posting. Howard is moving to 1B and it is highly likely that I will also run 1B in 2019 for the following reasons:

a) I need some new tyres for 2019 to replace my current 1C Kumhos

b) It is my personal belief that in future there will be reduced availability of reasonably priced 1C tyres in the sizes and compounds suitable for our type of competition and car

c) I want to revisit and compete at some new venues not currently in the SS and will therefore be entering another championship this year in a roadgoing class

d)  I do not want to compete on-the-day against slick shod cars in Mod Prod.

d) I fancy a new challenge.

 

I realise that by running an H-pattern dog box I will still compete in SS Class D and even though the car has a Passport it will compete with MOT, insurance, lights, etc to comply with roadgoing requirements of the other Championship.  I am thus likely be at a significant competitive disadvantage in the Speed Series re tyres, seats, etc but as Stu states, that is my problem.

I have nothing whatever against 1C tyres and the current SS Class structure which does indeed provide a stepping stone through to Mod-Prod.

 

It is my personal belief however that legislation and subsequent availability and cost of 1C tyres will eventually see reduced use in sprinting and hillclimbing at which point Championship organisers need to make the decision on Classes specifying IC’s  and give competitors at least 12-18 months warning of any changes.

A mid-2019 Season review of Speed Series Class numbers,  1C and 1B users thoughts and time comparisons between 1B & 1C users should enable an SSOT decision to be made.

Richard and Philip are correct: Things were so much simpler when everyone ran 1A’s and full windscreens!!

Just need to get the car back together now!

Keith

[Terry Everall]

the reason for raising this issue for discussion now is that if we are to give people reasonable notice about changes we can't leave things until the year end or everyone will complain that they did not get enough notice. So please air your views now. The biggest issue may well be that most , if not all, of the class records C,D,E and F were set on list 1C tres so how do we set Target Times ?

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

54 minutes ago, Terry Everall - WSCC Competition Secretary said:

the reason for raising this issue for discussion now is that if we are to give people reasonable notice about changes we can't leave things until the year end or everyone will complain that they did not get enough notice. So please air your views now. The biggest issue may well be that most , if not all, of the class records C,D,E and F were set on list 1C tres so how do we set Target Times ?

Just to add to Terry's comments, he only took over officially as Competition Secretary on January 1st so there was little time to give notice of any changes for this season. The SSOT intend to give much more notice in future hence his raising of the subject now for 2020.

[Rogers79]

As I’ve said previously running in class E which is a road going class I see target times set on 1C tyres a disadvantage. On the day it means if I run 1B tyres I’ve no chance of good points in the Westfield championship but I can run in the organising clubs road going class. If I run 1C tyres It means I can’t run in the organising clubs road going. I think this also means to run 1C tyres I’m technically modified and need a full cage. I understand that it was the then MSA that changed the listing rules however it seems only the Wscc championship that haven’t changed making it unattractive for many in  road going. I think more Westfield’s would register as they could run in other championships to score points on the day. 

Im sure others have differing views this is just my perspective and the reason I’m not sure a full campaign is the way to go as I’m at a disadvantage before I cross the start line. 

[graham frankland]

Terry

 

I posted my reply in the original post on the 2019 Regulations Thread for completeness could you transfer it over to this threadplease?

Thanks

Graham

[graham frankland]

Hi Jezz

By way of explaination,m back in 2015/16 when the MSA moved certain of the 1A and 1B to 1C many of our entrants in A B C B E and F were already using the Avon and Kuhmo tyres that were previously 1B in Road Going and were reclassified as 1C

In fact the the SS was very innovative at the time to amend C D E and F classes to allow the re-classified Avon and Kumho to continue to be used with very little change to the car and equipment used!

This is still the current situation today!

For those entrants who now want to run on 1A and 1B tyres and conform in all other aspects C and D runners can move back to A & B without too much problem.

The issue of Target Times for E and F classes wanting to use Road Going 1A and 1B tyres can be addressed by creating two new road going tyre classes ie  E & F rg. For the first year the target times would need to be adjusted upwards from the existing 1C based times currently in existance. The SSOT have used this approach previously when the Avon and Kuhmo tyres were orininally moved to 1C and the new A and B and Novice target times were established 3 years ago.

There will be an outcry that we don't want another 2 technical classes but I personally don't know how else we can cover all the different permutations that our sport throws at us season by season!

I hope this helps

Graham         

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

1 hour ago, Rogers79 said:

As I’ve said previously running in class E which is a road going class I see target times set on 1C tyres a disadvantage. On the day it means if I run 1B tyres I’ve no chance of good points in the Westfield championship but I can run in the organising clubs road going class. If I run 1C tyres It means I can’t run in the organising clubs road going. I think this also means to run 1C tyres I’m technically modified and need a full cage. I understand that it was the then MSA that changed the listing rules however it seems only the Wscc championship that haven’t changed making it unattractive for many in  road going. I think more Westfield’s would register as they could run in other championships to score points on the day. 

Im sure others have differing views this is just my perspective and the reason I’m not sure a full campaign is the way to go as I’m at a disadvantage before I cross the start line. 

Jez - you only need a full cage if over 2000cc in specialist mod prod. You would however need a HANS device

[Rogers79]

1 hour ago, graham frankland said:

Terry

 

I posted my reply in the original post on the 2019 Regulations Thread for completeness could you transfer it over to this threadplease?

Thanks

Graham

Thanks John that’s good news, I thought if I ran 1C tyres outside wscc it put me in modified  

Graham appreciate the background it does make sense. I wish I had a pro-active solution to the issue, i’m just trying to explain how some newbies see it. 

Not sure more classes would be appropriate as it just dilutes competition further. No body wants a hollow win. 

Anyone got a magic wand??

[Terry Everall]

1C tyres does put you into Mod Prods on the day at all events but you can run in our classes 

[mark.anson]

9 hours ago, Keith the Teeth said:

Howard and I discussed moving from 1B to 1C tyres. for 2019, as mentioned by Alex in his 2019 Speed Series Regulations posting. Howard is moving to 1B and it is highly likely that I will also run 1B in 2019 for the following reasons:

 

a) I need some new tyres for 2019 to replace my current 1C Kumhos

 

b) It is my personal belief that in future there will be reduced availability of reasonably priced 1C tyres in the sizes and compounds suitable for our type of competition and car

 

c) I want to revisit and compete at some new venues not currently in the SS and will therefore be entering another championship this year in a roadgoing class

 

d)  I do not want to compete on-the-day against slick shod cars in Mod Prod.

 

d) I fancy a new challenge.

 

 

 

I realise that by running an H-pattern dog box I will still compete in SS Class D and even though the car has a Passport it will compete with MOT, insurance, lights, etc to comply with roadgoing requirements of the other Championship.  I am thus likely be at a significant competitive disadvantage in the Speed Series re tyres, seats, etc but as Stu states, that is my problem.

 

I have nothing whatever against 1C tyres and the current SS Class structure which does indeed provide a stepping stone through to Mod-Prod.

 

 

 

It is my personal belief however that legislation and subsequent availability and cost of 1C tyres will eventually see reduced use in sprinting and hillclimbing at which point Championship organisers need to make the decision on Classes specifying IC’s  and give competitors at least 12-18 months warning of any changes.

 

A mid-2019 Season review of Speed Series Class numbers,  1C and 1B users thoughts and time comparisons between 1B & 1C users should enable an SSOT decision to be made.

 

Richard and Philip are correct: Things were so much simpler when everyone ran 1A’s and full windscreens!!

 

Just need to get the car back together now!

 

Keith

 

Great post Keith and sums up the issue in one post.