Duratec

[Guest]

thank you Ian you have explained why the engine gets hotter and hotter and the the stat does not see it ,and then it goes pop.

Hope hes only using it for road use ,but the design of that water rail ia all wrong . Looks nice but in practice it will cost loads .

[jackal]

28k is cheap id say given how little it wil depreciate

i was originally looking to spend no less than about 50k but couldnt find anything good enough

[Matt Seabrook]

i was originally looking to spend no less than about 50k but couldnt find anything good enough

goodness me  

[TAFFYY]

Hi very nice but o so clean it looks as you polish the battery as well as the rest of the car  Tom

[jackal]

yep , agreed.. does need a bit of use

all in good time though... been too busy driving the M5 trailer car that i bought with the 22k change  

[oioi]

when you consider what the R series costs with an engine made of cheese the 28k seems like a bargain  

jackal has acheived a similar to power to weight ratio as me and i spent 25% of that              

his, i would hope, will handle a little better      

OiOi

[Westfieldman]

so clean it looks as you polish the battery as well as the rest of the car  

Its for the food hygine rules the catering vans have these days:D

[JohnCh]

Just out of interest, is there a reason for choosing the 2.0 over the 2.3?

I opted for the smaller engine for a number of reasons.  At the time I bought my Duratec (last November) I had two choices: a Euro 2.0L or the 2.3L version from the Ford Ranger pickup truck.  The larger engine has a lower compression ration (9.7:1 vs. 10.8:1), milder stock cams, 10.9mm longer stroke (identical bore and valve sizes), a marginally taller block (reportedly by 14mm) and 8 counterweights versus just 4 in the smaller motor.  Given these differences, it sounded to me like the larger engine may be a little heavier and slightly less rev-happy than the short-stroke 2.0L, particularly when the stock internals were left in place which was my plan.  If I wanted to make really big power or massive torque, then I definitely would have gone for the bigger engine, but I think I will be more than happy with the 220-240hp and associated torque the smaller engine is capable of producing with hotter cams.

Hope hes only using it for road use ,but the design of that water rail ia all wrong

The water rail sits directly over the exhaust manifold??  I am using Raceline components for my conversion, but I haven't seen the water rail yet since it is supposedly in transit from the UK.  After looking at the above photos and reading some comments though, I am not so sure this was the right way to go.  Oh well, looks like I will find out the hard way.  

A new problem I discovered over the weekend is that Raceline's alternator bracket won't work on a LHD car.  Although I am sure it works great on RHD cars, it positions the alternator so the steering column on a LHD goes right through the heart of it.  As I recall from my physics classes, there is some problem with two objects occupying the same space at the same time...  At this stage, it looks like I can attach the alternator to the upper mount and then make extensions for the lower mounts so I can rotate the alternator out of the way of the steering column.  Of course this means that I will need to find a suitably long drive belt.  Oh this is going to be fun.

-John

Seattle, USA

[conibear]

thank you Ian you have explained why the engine gets hotter and hotter and the the stat does not see it ,and then it goes pop.

Hope hes only using it for road use ,but the design of that water rail ia all wrong . Looks nice but in practice it will cost loads .

What are you talking about harv, I cannot see your point.

Perhaps you could advise me why you have come to this assumption. Apart from the heat convecting from the exhaust downpipes which I don't see it a problem I cannot understand your criticism.

Ian

[oioi]

my understanding was (as an impartial person) harv's concern is the location of the stat.

if it is remote from the block (on the rad) then it will not see an increase in temp on the block as rapidly and the engine temp will increase more due to the lag in the system as you have a column of static water to heat before you open the thermostat.

you can drill the thermostat to create constant flow to resolve this, but it will slow down the heating up time of the engine.  at this time of year       it may be an issue.

i agree with you the location of the water rail is not a major concern.

OiOi

[Guest]

that is the issue ,the block warms up alot faster than the stat sees it there can be a 20 degs difference between block and stat temp.

I have seen it measured and have no reason to belive that it is any different from the zetec rail.

Oh and when questioned about why the 28k caterham had not got the rail on it when the original builder built it he said " i wouldn't touch that rail with a barge pole "

so if hes building another you can bet hat does not use it either.

[conibear]

The engine t/stat (82c) is located on the end of the water rail as shown in the picture. It will always bleed in low temperature conditions, this is flow direction to the top of the radiator. The bottom outlet of the radiator returns to the engine inlet via the water pump, it circulates through the engine and exits via the water rail through the t/stat. IMO the location of the t/stat is better than in the return. There is an expansion line to a catch tank also shown. The t/stat on the radiator is switching the fan and set at 82c (I think). What is wrong with this application The Mondea set up maintains the engine temperature at 100c, I'm getting no where near that, but my only concern is whether the radiator is up to it, Westfield and Raceline think it is but I've got my doubts. In fact Raceline say the problem their finding is getting the engine up to temperature. I hope this explains the set up harv co's I don't think you know, but basically the water rail is an extension of the engine to the radiator and as the Zetec is based on the BDA design years ago, which has'nt done bad has it.

The water rail does not sit on or touch the exhaust manifold and I cannot see any problem with the exhaust pipes below.

Raceline inform me that they do not have any problems with their Zetec water rails, but then I'm not interested as I have a Duratec

If any engine overheats it requires more cooling, i.e. radiator not sized/designed for the job.

Ian

[conibear]

the block warms up alot faster than the stat sees it there can be a 20 degs difference between block and stat temp.

so if hes building another you can bet hat does not use it either.

Rubbish    

I beleive he is going to use one.

harv, explain to me what effect the water rail has on the Zetec engine  

Ian

[Guest]

all i can say is it failed to cool correctly mt 225bhp zetec although it did at a lower spec.

searches of the net and this forum show others who have had problems with it .

Oh and raceline saying that there were no problems with the zetec rail is rubbish as they told me to start drilling holes in the stat to increase flow round the engine.

this was a fresh engine which when the raceline rail was junked had no problems.

i hope you are happy and all runs fine as the install looks very nice .

i only expressed concern as myself and others have personally had problems with the zetec version.

[conibear]

Harv thanks for your comments.

I still cannot see how the water rail can be a problem as it only directs the water flow and not designed to cool your engine. Your problem was obvioulsy to do with the t/stat opening too late whilst enjoying your higher 225bhp, but ok during an earlier state and lower bhp. Changing the t/stat for a lower temperature switch or higher duty flowrate radiator would probably have sorted it. So I think that blaming the water rail and Raceline is unfair.

Raceline assure me they have not had one water rail returned, but they do say they are designed to tidy up engine bays and attempts to make plumbing easier. If utilised in application correctly are a good bit of kit, but probably this is the problem.

Cheers

Ian