Wheels, tyres, ARBs - biggest gain?

[Kingster]

So now that I’ve popped my sprinting cherry I now know what you lot are on about. Safe to say that will not be my last event!

My car is a genuine road going car, not a sprint car with lights, and as such there’s room for improvement in the car (and a shed load more in me!)

I currently run 15” R1R’s and no ARBs. The wheels are OZ superleggeras and they are very light, so not a big disadvantage over 13’s

I do plan to get some 13” wheels and some better tyres along with ARBs - keeping the 15” as wets - but wonder what the census is on what’s going to give me the biggest bang for my buck if I do it in affordable stages as I’m not loaded!

So the options are:

1) A set of AR1’s or R888R’s in 15”

2) A set of 13” wheels with suitable tyres if they come up

3) Front ARB

4) Front and rear ARBs

I’m going to get Luke to redo the Geo to make it more track focussed anyway, but any advice would be welcome. 

[Kingster]

Oh and I do realise that improving ME will be the biggest way to get the times down, so plan to get more time in the seat and some tuition. 

[B.RAD]

Lol, was just about to say seat time! A geo is a great place to start, but if you're going to spend money on wheels & tyres, wait until you've done that first. 

In all seriousness though, learning to drive the car as is, on the tyres it's on, and pushing yourself to the limit is the best way to learn. Do a season as is and start to learn where the cars limits are in terms of understeer/oversteer/mid-corner/exit etc and then you can decide what the right development step is for you and the car, not what everyone else says you should have (even if they turn out to be right - but instead of doing what you're told, you've learnt it for yourself). Sprinting is great for this as you're against the clock and can literally see/feel where the changes make a difference.

Get booked in for some sessions with @AdamR (maybe even in his mx5 as we discussed - great way to learn car control!) and take it from there - just my tuppence worth.

[Kingster]

Absolutely Barny.

I do feel that the tyres are a limiting factor, but you are right, money spent on seat time and tuition will pay back bigger dividends that more grip and a wuss behind the wheel 

[maurici]

Car have to be half driveable too... I cant see a track westy in a sprint event being "competitive" with T1R, 15 and without any ARB to control the weight transfer...

Seat time and tuition is a MUST, but a decent set of 13" sticky rubbers and AT LEAST a front adjustable ARB will make a difference, and the car will be slightly more in pace.

Tyres are not so important for tuition, as you won't probably use your set of competition tyres for training purposes, but ARB should be IN before trying to understand the car's behavior. (just an opinion though)

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

I'd say yes to ARB, for the adjustability of set up they lend. And then tuition, tuition, tuition! Oh and seat time, getting to know your car. Also log EVERY DETAIL of the configuration and performances.

But before getting too wrapped up in the whole wheel size and tyre type debate; I'll throw this out there. Have a look in the Boardroom archives, at just how well Ash Mason, (@Arm) did with his light but powerful car years ago, on 15" Super Leg's, and how many FTD's and records he used to hold, wiping the floor with a surprising number of semi slick shod cars!

He did by being a superb driver, true. But also being meticulous in his set up, and his logging of how changes to the car affected performance etc.

Im not trying to say things like wheels and tyres et al, don't matter. Just that the soft squidgy bit behind the wheel makes a far bifpgger difference!

The other point I'd consider, is that while on the steep part of the learning curve, using more road based wheels and tyres will shift the "oh ****" moments down the speed ladder, and should mean that when it lets go, it's a bit more progressive as well.

[Simon Waterfall Syman84]

Just as an example I currently run 15's granted they have a very good 1B tyre but was quicker than all the class C boys on 13's and 1c tyres on sunday. So Dave is right the bod behind the wheel make up a lot of a package. But seat time is key. That's what I have learned in my small amount of sprinting 7 events 2 track days.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Oh, and a slightly left field suggestion, but I don't know if your AiM dash has a gps/accelerometer based data logger built in, but if it doesn't, I think they're an option on many of the AiM units. Seriously consider adding it. You have a Can Bus or serial connection to your ecu, don't you, already? So you have TPS, rpm, speed etc.

I found on track, when having so much to do at once, and so much information coming at you so quickly, it really helped to go back over the track map data log afterwards, comparing runs and seeing where the gains and losses were.

[Terry Everall]

I would fit ARBs

[AdamR]

I would buy a set of road tyres and learn how to drive the wheels off the thing. Absolutely happy to be sat in the passenger seat shouting at you while this happens

Edit: I would also look at and consider the ergonomics of the car closely. Things such as pedal heights, seating and steering wheel position, etc. IMO it is better to get the most out of what you have, rather than have 'a lot' and only use a little of it. This also then translates to any other car you drive.

I reckon you car right now is capable of a sprint time around 73-74s on Blyton outer. You might find a second from ARBs, a second from a new alignment, 2 seconds from new tyres (more likely from fresh rubber than the actual model of tyre, IYSWIM), but even without these things the time is there.

[Kingster]

@AdamR definitely looking to get more seat time with a knowledgeable passenger   (That’ll be you btw )

Fully understand that the most time is to come from the muppet holding the wheel. 

[Kingster]

@AdamR pm’d 

[maurici]

On 20/07/2018 at 09:23, Chris King - Webmaster and Joint North East AO said:

@AdamR pm’d 

That was the best option... Adam is right telling you that there is time on what you got right now... but still, ARB are needed, and you will find it just after finishing a full session with Adam.

[Kingster]

37 minutes ago, maurici said:

That was the best option... Adam is right telling you that there is time on what you got right now... but still, ARB are needed, and you will find it just after finishing a full session with Adam.

Yep. The plan is to fit ARBs but leave disconnected or very soft initially with Adam showing me how to control on the edge of grip (in theory!). Then later sessions we can use the ARBs and see how they help. 

So all booked up and looking forward to learning how to drive 

[B.RAD]

Well played Chris. Great decision. Future novice champ in the making....