I just found out.....

[Lyonspride]

11 hours ago, Nemesis said:

Is there any chance that you might spot the flaw in this initiative to install these meters.......  it's a government backed scheme right??

 

 

There is no flaw, i'd bet good money that certain people in govt are shareholders in the firms producing the meters........ They're so insistent on everyone having them, yet there is no hard evidence that they directly save money or reduce bills.

[DonPeffers]

22 hours ago, Nick - Joint North East AO said:

Well they phoned up to do my'n and I stayed in 3 times and they never turned up. So when they phoned to arrange again my polite voice had dissapeared (wonder why) and my suggestion that they fit their meter where the sun doesn;t shine didn't seem to go down to well. So guess we aren't getting one any time soon. Shame that 

See http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40667209 re compensation you should be owed barring very severe weather events disruption.

The gas man cometh - or not: The rules

Customers should normally be offered a four-hour window. Or a two hour slot if they ask for it

If that slot is missed, they should be offered £30 in automatic compensation

If that is not paid within 10 days, they are due a further £30.

Applies to Gas and Electricity meter appointments.

Good luck.

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

7 hours ago, DonPeffers said:

See http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40667209 re compensation you should be owed barring very severe weather events disruption.

The gas man cometh - or not: The rules

Customers should normally be offered a four-hour window. Or a two hour slot if they ask for it

If that slot is missed, they should be offered £30 in automatic compensation

If that is not paid within 10 days, they are due a further £30.

Applies to Gas and Electricity meter appointments.

Good luck.

Thanks, it was about 8 months ago now and I've chucked all the bits of paper I'd written the dates/times down in the bin. Interestingly it was the usual telephone call, with nothing in writing despite asking, and they wonder why we hate Utility services so much.

[Deanspoors]

I removed my smart meters as they were fitted to PAYG meters, to change to a normal credit meter I had to get the smart meter removed and a normal meter reinstalled. This was the start of a small issue, around 3 after both my electricity and gas meter was changed I got an electricity bill through the door. Strange I thought, I wonder where my gas bill is. another 6 months go by and couple more electricity bills I thought I better phone up xx supplier. So I phoned them up and explained that xx engineer had come and removed both electricity and gas smart meters for a normal credit meter and I had not had a bill yet, the person on the phone then told me that I had a PAYG meter installed?? I persisted in this conversation until I was cut off. I phoned back up and the operator on the phone this time told me I was not with xx company, I asked her if she could tell me which company I was with and how that even made sense, she obviously couldn't give me that information either. A couple more calls of the same ilk and I eventually gave up and decided to have free gas. I've had a look at the meter and the engineer has installed a second hand unit so there is no way of knowing the installation figure. Any ideas where I stand on this if and when someone realises their mistake? 

 

 

[Andy (Sycho)]

You are not the first person I've heard have this issue & they too couldn't get any company to take responsibility for it.

Not sure where you stand but I'd make a note of your readings every mouth, at least then they can average it out to when you had it changed if they ever do come knocking.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

My old business partner had a similar issue over a gas meter no one would take responsibility for, for years, in an outbuilding at his old house. (Home studio and Office, so kept at quite a comfortable temperature).

After the best part of ten years, the gas company did find it, and sent a backdated invoice, for an eye watering amount.

It took another few stress-filled years to be resolved. I know his paper trail of trying to get it sorted out and sending readings helped enormously. But although I’ve forgotten the details now, he did still have to pay an not insignificant amount, even if it wasn’t the five figure amount originally requested.

[DonPeffers]

11 hours ago, Deanspoors said:

I removed my smart meters as they were fitted to PAYG meters, to change to a normal credit meter I had to get the smart meter removed and a normal meter reinstalled. This was the start of a small issue, around 3 after both my electricity and gas meter was changed I got an electricity bill through the door. Strange I thought, I wonder where my gas bill is. another 6 months go by and couple more electricity bills I thought I better phone up xx supplier. So I phoned them up and explained that xx engineer had come and removed both electricity and gas smart meters for a normal credit meter and I had not had a bill yet, the person on the phone then told me that I had a PAYG meter installed?? I persisted in this conversation until I was cut off. I phoned back up and the operator on the phone this time told me I was not with xx company, I asked her if she could tell me which company I was with and how that even made sense, she obviously couldn't give me that information either. A couple more calls of the same ilk and I eventually gave up and decided to have free gas. I've had a look at the meter and the engineer has installed a second hand unit so there is no way of knowing the installation figure. Any ideas where I stand on this if and when someone realises their mistake? 

 

 

See https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/consumers/household-gas-and-electricity-guide/who-contact-if-its-difficult-paying-energy-bills/energy-back-billing-your-rights

[Deanspoors]

I'll take a reading and photo as of now, then will use this if they eventually come calling. I have savings and I obviously don't mind paying for what I've used, but as long as I can't be charged more than I've used I don't see that I have anything to lose. It is pretty annoying when you're waiting on the phone for 20-30 minutes at a time attempting to correct their error and you get hanged up on. 

[CraigHew]

If you keep photo records etc and a decent audit trail then you simply cannot be charged for more than you've used.  Where you may come unstuck is the backdated tariff they eventually apply.  The daily standing charge and the price per unit used can vary considerably and I suspect that they will calculate any outstanding amount agaist their bog-standard tariff rather than on a more financially attractive one.

Clearly they may never "come knocking" in which case you're laughing....

[DonPeffers]

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/consumers/household-gas-and-electricity-guide/who-contact-if-its-difficult-paying-energy-bills/energy-back-billing-your-rights  says

"When does the back-billing principle apply?

Each case is looked at on its own merits; however, the 12 month limit for back-bills may apply in these examples when your supplier has:

Failed to bill you at all and you have requested bills from them

Billed you using estimated meter readings instead of valid readings provided by you or a meter reader

Billed you incorrectly by mixing up meter readings, and failed to act upon information available to put this right

Failed to do anything about a query or fault you have raised regarding your account or meter and subsequently allowed a large debt to build up on your account

Failed to reassess a payment arrangement (e.g. Direct Debit) within 15 months, or failed to reassess based on a reasonable estimate. 

It may not apply if you:

Have been using the gas or electricity supply but have made no attempt to contact the supplier to arrange payment. This includes moving into a property and making no attempt to let a supplier know you are the new tenant or homeowner

Have wilfully avoided payment

Have not co-operated with attempts to obtain meter readings or resolve queries requested by the supplier. This includes failing to allow access to the property or failing to respond to requests for meter details or meter readings".

 

If I were you I would email customer service at your supplier notifying them of the no bill scenario giving the full details and then you can prove you attempted to pay and your liability should be limited to the last 12 months energy.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

20 hours ago, CraigHew said:

If you keep photo records etc and a decent audit trail then you simply cannot be charged for more than you've used. 

Indeed, in my business partners case, they used, albeit years apart, genuine meter readings, so there was no doubt on the quantity of gas used. It was the tarrifs (and I’m hazy on it now, it’s going back some years, “associated charges”) that were the killer, initially. The outbuilding was business rated anyway, and they simply applied the highest commercial tariffs they could.

But the paper trail from my business partners end,  and the fact that our phone system at the business could automatically record calls, which we’d archived copies of, were what gave him the negotiating power to make a big dent in the final bill.

[Steve (sdh2903)]

When we moved into our current house 3 and a half years ago there was no record of who the gas was supplied with. The previous owners told us all energy was through SSE but turned out it was only the lecky.

After weeks of tooing and froing with transco and Scottish gas networks it turned out that our meter serial number hadn't been registered on any billing system for the 18 years that the house had been built! 

Several people said I shouldn't have bothered but I really didn't want the hassle of a huge bill when they twigged. We ended up with 6 months free gas as a gesture of goodwill anyway. Not as much as 18 years free though

[Steve (sdh2903)]

Oh and back on the topic of smart meters. Does anyone know of they can fit them in the at ground level position now?

We've been told we could never have one as the gas meter is in the ground under a lid.  Now we've been "told" we're getting smart meters fitted for Npower. I'm not fussed about having them anyway but the Mrs is keen for some unbeknown reason. But if it's a waste of time waiting in I'll tell em not to bother.

[Blatman]

I'm going to wait as long as possible. The technology is not yet mature and there are going to be issues going forwards, especially is this is a pseudo government initiative. So I get a display that shows me how much I am using? Will it change my usage habits? Doubt it. I'm not one for leaving lights/heating on or taps running. so watching a small display count is pointless and irrelevant for me.

And above all this, my one over-riding thought about a lot of these new initiatives from large bodies that we are required to buy from is this: rarely are their new schemes designed to benefit the customer. Often they are to the benefit of the company. When was the last time we saw a scheme to "reduce costs" that those costs were actually passed on to the consumer? I can't think of one. When was the last time efficiency in gas, electric, insurance, waste collection/recycling actually saw bills genuinely reduce year on year as a result of cost savings? I left water out because water meters were the on exception to this for me.

Money saved from these schemes reduces turnover/profit for these companies who have shareholders who expect ever increasing dividends. So where does the shortfall get made up?

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Mines an unusual situation, as due to a change in family circumstances, my usage patterns changed dramatically over a very short space of time, so...

I quickly changed to smart meters for all three utilities. The water meter genuinely saves my money every month, as I use less than the standard household allocation, IYSWIM.

The electric and gas smart meters show a big first year saving, that won’t be repeated, but most importantly, for me, it stops the monthly arguments as the supplier tries to return my direct debits to the previous levels, as they didn’t initially believe the change in pattern. (I’m pretty sure they were convinced I’d got some kind of hack on the previous meters!!

Interestingly, though, because I do keep an eye on the internal display, I was able to spot a sudden spike in gas use, and go looking for the reason. (I traced it to a faulty control valve, which was subsequently replaced). It probably saved me the cost of the boiler running flat out, for at least a work week, as I would have only really noticed the following weekend.

Oh, and the dual fuel promotion I took up, gave me “free” electricity between 9am and 5pm on a Saturday. So guess when I use all the heavy power tools, tumble drier, washer etc!

That said, my electricity and gas meter display are all first generation, so non transferable. They’re not without their faults, either. I’ve had one display crap out on me already, and had to have another one put in.

Whether they’re an overal net benefit is very much down to individual household usage patterns. If they vary a lot,like mine,  you might see benefits, but if your usage, allowing for the normal seasonal variations, is fairly constant and predictable you probably won’t?