2018 Regs and Explainations

[Terry Everall]

There are clearly some difficult issue regarding javelin events including insurance,membershipof MSA etc but one big issue seems to be the lack of suitable classes relevant to the car spec and the fact that they currently only run a limited number of events at a few venues. 

[XTR2Turbo]

If we think the challenge is to get newbies to try competitive motorsport vs track days, Is there Merit in the organisation of a specific newbies class  for westfields within the javelin series? 

 

 

[mark.anson]

18 hours ago, neptune said:

As someone who has never participted but would like to try sprinting and enjoy some of the legendary circuits, I hope my comments are useful

First and foremost my car is a road car used in all weathers. I like my full hood. Due to msa rules i understand i cannot participte without and approved roll bar, which means I can't use my hood so my car becomes less attractive for its main purpose. 

 Swapping bars is a p.i.t.a. and a half hood doesn't appeal to me. 

Costs for new rolbar, approved helmets, clothing , new seat belts all become significant just to participate. 

So I like others i have spoken with, will choose other less stringent and  more pay and play oriented events to dip our toes in the water . Perhaps I will get hooked and then be confident to invest. 

My reason for commenting is that by virtue of the MSA association, SS is unable to offer  a low investment taste of the sport . It isn't the TT's or classes that are the barriers to initial entrance even though they may be barriers to folks coming back for more ...

 

 

Neptune

This is the sort of feedback the SSOT want to hear ; from someone who doesn't currently compete, but the fact you have taken the time to comment may mean your keen to give it ago.

Target times were (after a "change over year ") introduced in 2010. There is evidence that in the couple of years after they were introduced there was a drop off in the number of folk competing, particularly in the road going classes so its fair to say that the introduction of target times may have played a part in this, which is unfortunate but without going into detail there were sound reasons for introducing them as a scoring system. We are now 8 years on now so Im no longer convinced that the scoring system is a big barrier to attracting new competitors. In fact other successful clubs use a class record based scoring system.

This year we (the SSOT) have evaluated various different scoring systems in the background (including reverting to the old scoring system) and those used by other clubs but it didn't matter what we looked at there was always a problem making them unsuitable for the Speed Series. If nothing else it confirmed that there was no perfect scoring system and we will stick to the class record based scoring system.

There has been a push in the last couple of years particularly to encourage new competitors to the speed series and we looked seriously at whether it was the scoring system that was putting folk off.

Your feedback though does seem to confirm confirm what we suspected in that it is'nt necessarily the scoring system that is putting folk off.

Its is clearly, combined with the longest recession for many many years , the double whammy of the MSA rules has had a significant impact on attracting new people. 

Clearly the cost of kitting yourself out to compete in the first place isn't cheap, but if you did wish to give it a go there are plenty of second hand legal race suits are available on the bay of e and Playskool Motorsport were offering a hire service of suit helmet and gloves to Speed Series competitors a couple of years ago. (Ring Luke to see if this is still available).

Of course its not just about the competing its about the social aspect too, so I would encourage you to take part in the Blyton track day in July and come along to the Shelley Event, which is also non competitive and take your car up the hill.

 

 

[woodman]

Totally agree with Smokey.

No matter what the SSOT do to the Speed Series Regs there is no getting around the MSA rules

I still think that is would be good to lower TTS for all to take away the perception that they are made of unobtainium

[Marto303]

2 hours ago, mark.anson said:

Neptune

This is the sort of feedback the SSOT want to hear ; from someone who doesn't currently compete, but the fact you have taken the time to comment may mean your keen to give it ago.

Target times were (after a "change over year ") introduced in 2010. There is evidence that in the couple of years after they were introduced there was a drop off in the number of folk competing, particularly in the road going classes so its fair to say that the introduction of target times may have played a part in this, which is unfortunate but without going into detail there were sound reasons for introducing them as a scoring system. We are now 8 years on now so Im no longer convinced that the scoring system is a big barrier to attracting new competitors. In fact other successful clubs use a class record based scoring system.

This year we (the SSOT) have evaluated various different scoring systems in the background (including reverting to the old scoring system) and those used by other clubs but it didn't matter what we looked at there was always a problem making them unsuitable for the Speed Series. If nothing else it confirmed that there was no perfect scoring system and we will stick to the class record based scoring system.

There has been a push in the last couple of years particularly to encourage new competitors to the speed series and we looked seriously at whether it was the scoring system that was putting folk off.

Your feedback though does seem to confirm confirm what we suspected in that it is'nt necessarily the scoring system that is putting folk off.

Its is clearly, combined with the longest recession for many many years , the double whammy of the MSA rules has had a significant impact on attracting new people. 

Clearly the cost of kitting yourself out to compete in the first place isn't cheap, but if you did wish to give it a go there are plenty of second hand legal race suits are available on the bay of e and Playskool Motorsport were offering a hire service of suit helmet and gloves to Speed Series competitors a couple of years ago. (Ring Luke to see if this is still available).

Of course its not just about the competing its about the social aspect too, so I would encourage you to take part in the Blyton track day in July and come along to the Shelley Event, which is also non competitive and take your car up the hill.

 

 

Mark

We are confusing the situation now.

Whilst it may not be TT's that initially put newbies off entering the speed series, once they have circumnavigated the rules and regs, spent their hard earnt on overalls, helmet, gloves, roll bar etc etc etc they must be pretty determined to finally have a go at an event. Surely after all that effort getting there we don't want to make them feel demoralised by unachievable TT's. A slight softening of TT's for the novice classes will only increase their enjoyment in a feel good kind of way and encourage them to continue.

I really do not understand the SSOT's complete determination to resist this. We've used 2% softer TT score system for novices for the past few seasons why change it now ? No body is suggesting they want a novice to be able to win the championship ( as has been mentioned ) just a more realistic TT to make their experience more enjoyable, after all if they don't enjoy it they won't continue.

[Terry Everall]

Martin

The 2% was not for novices it was for 1B tyres. Novices had a 1.5% allowance to TTs

2018 sees us do away with Novice times completely as it does not affect the opportunities they have to score against other Novices or people in the same class

In classes C,D,E,F,G and H we have  Target Times that have been developed over the last 7 years and the majority ( I estimate around 95%) are actually very hard to achieve class records!!!!. They are not times that even experienced drivers could achieve on a regular basis and I believe there is a misconception that they are achievable. They are RECORDS and some have stood for several years and were set by top drivers in extensively developed cars on the best tyres.

[Marto303]

2 minutes ago, terry everall said:

Martin

The 2% was not for novices it was for 1B tyres. Novices had a 1.5% allowance to TTs

2018 sees us do away with Novice times completely as it does not affect the opportunities they have to score against other Novices or people in the same class

In classes C,D,E,F,G and H we have  Target Times that have been developed over the last 7 years and the majority ( I estimate around 95%) are actually very hard to achieve class records!!!!. They are not times that even experienced drivers could achieve on a regular basis and I believe there is a misconception that they are achievable. They are RECORDS and some have stood for several years and were set by top drivers in extensively developed cars on the best tyres.

Terry

It was 2% in my day !

Well we'll just have to agree to disagree, mine and others request is simply to try and help our novices to have a good experience. Lets hope the new rules don't do the opposite.

M 

 

[Terry Everall]

Martin

We are all passionate about the speed series and we do need more people to take part at all levels. In the past Paul Morcom and myself have run the sprint school at Blyton and I have certainly acted as a mentor to some newcomers. I think that a personal mentor could help people to make sure that their car is ok, car set up, PPE is appropriate, tyre selection, correct class entered, how to enter events including class on the day, MSA licence etc

I am happy to offer this to anyone who wants to contact me and I am sure others will also help in the same way. 

[woodman]

Keep the records,

Does it really matter what the TTS are? It is the differnce to them that counts for points.

There is/has been a feeling from many experts as well as novices that the TT is beyond them .

So why not set them lower?

Then if everyone is achieving over 100% then they feel good .

We dont need the cap for most venues now.

[Terry Everall]

Stu

You say KEEP the Records but then talk about lower TTs? How would that work and how would everyone scoring more than 100% be of use???

[Barry S]

Hang on the mists might be clearing here,,, so lower the target times for all but put in place a bonus score of some kind for beating an established (or calculated) class record??

That way we have sense of achievement for achieving target as per Stu's comment but also reward for an exceptional day???

Thoughts??

[woodman]

YesTerry keep the records for basing and calculating real times .

But then set the TT about 20% lower, and remove 101/102 cap.

Then all competitors beat TT, They feel good about it . The fastest person will still score the most

[Terry Everall]

But then that makes the TT meaningless

[woodman]

Why does it make it meaningless?

The TT is only away of determining points

[Terry Everall]

11 hours ago, woodman said:

 

The TT is only away of determining points

Exactly! So why should we change what has worked for 7 years and given us what seems to be fair and close finishes taking us right to the last events of the season in nearly every class etc