2018 Regs and Explainations

[Onliest Smeg David]

1 minute ago, John said:

There has been 1C tyres in the blue book for many years including way before ZZR. They are for other purposes as well. If you include list 1A, B and C tyres in the novice championship, surely it widens the net of potential newbies as they will surely have tyres from at least one of the lists

With regards your own car, you could always develop it!

True - but limiting E/F to have to have 1C does narrow net as well, especially at Novice. Too many classes reduces competition within class, so having E(1B) F(1B) E(1C) F(1C) would be a step too far. In my mind having Novice as 1B then potential choice to move to Expert 1C is development. But forcing investment in Hans (before MSA do  ) may be a detractor to  some Novices competing. Also, removing 1C at Novice would help increase entries per class.

2 events and I'm an Expert, so The 'Lardy Ones' diet is a constant food for cogitation . I'm Itching to get into a full sprint car and compete for a few seasons and find out whether I'm the 'Lardy One' or the car was! 

[Terry Everall]

Classes C,D,E and F can use any tyre they like from list 1A,1B or 1C so does not restrict anyone. I they use list 1C the they do need a hans device

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

5 minutes ago, Dave (OnliestSmeg) - Manchester AO said:

True - but limiting E/F to have to have 1C does narrow net as well, especially at Novice. Too many classes reduces competition within class, so having E(1B) F(1B) E(1C) F(1C) would be a step too far. In my mind having Novice as 1B then potential choice to move to Expert 1C is development. But forcing investment in Hans (before MSA do  ) may be a detractor to  some Novices competing. Also, removing 1C at Novice would help increase entries per class.

2 events and I'm an Expert, so The 'Lardy Ones' diet is a constant food for cogitation . I'm Itching to get into a full sprint car and compete for a few seasons and find out whether I'm the 'Lardy One' or the car was! 

Novices with bike engined cars then become a problem as they are only eligible in classes E and F where 1C tyres are currently allowed. Admittedly they could run 1Bs in the class but competing against time set on 1C would be more difficult

The cost of a HANS device versus the price of a new set of tyres would be a close call. The HANS device would be my choice

[Onliest Smeg David]

56 minutes ago, Dave (OnliestSmeg) - Manchester AO said:

When you look at entries which meet qualifying criteria for awards = 8 plus rounds for Nov Championship, 5 or 6 rounds for Sprint Challenge:

2014 - Nov Champ 9 - Sprint 6

2015 - Nov Champ 7 - Sprint 1

2016 - Nov Champ 5 - Sprint 2

2017 - Nov Champ 3 - Sprint 0

Whatever our thoughts and opinions, this data is fact. But it's not just the SSOTs responsibility to fix it, we all need to get out with the general membership to promote our sport.

Hopefully this thread initially will carry enough clear constructive information for SSOT to make further informed decisions leading to 2019 onwards. Shame so few members (regular and SS) have contributed so far.

I'd better get back to work! 

[Terry Everall]

Dave

I think you meant that in 2018 you will still be a novice 

[pete g]

my only observation is target times will never be perfect ,for when the msa decide the next tyre out there that  is to good  they will put it in the 1c band  and your problem will start again .

ditch finders are the future and hans devices and cages for when you crash .

i think the team have a big problem trying to balance the rules to appease everyone . which they wont be able to do im afraid 

yes you need to get new blood but  i think its more the cost due to the msa  that has caused the problems not the target times .

when i joined as a novice in my car it still had carpets std gearbox  and i used it on the road  full tank etc etc .but i was in class f  because it had 1b tyres and aero screen  . that was the rules . i could have put on   1A tyres on it and windscreen and entered a lower class . but i was not worried about  about that i just wanted to see how i could compete against the fast boys .

i think its good being  the under dog and improving your car to the best you can .and see how close you can get to the others in your class.

after all the biggest gains are early on as you start out  and it gets harder as to progress but thats what drives most people on .

if you make it to easy people will come and people will go  just as quick [ if its to easy] .no challenge 

i still dont understand the std westfield bit . no westfield is ever std   and newer the car the better spec it is .

[woodman]

I think this would work and make lots happy-

 

Soften all targets by about 25% ( bit more for A+B)

But remove cap.

Then everyone feels like a driving god for beating TT, all novices also see themselves exceeding TT

But fastest will still win

[AdamR]

Sounds good to me!

Seriously though, why is there a cap on points score? Is it from the days when TTs were still being established?

[woodman]

Yes I think so

But now we have them for most  venues/classes.

I think the C TTS will work for A if they are softened a few %

[woodman]

It would also encourage newbies if they could see themselves being able to beat TTs

[Terry Everall]

Adam

The cap was brought in when we had target times and some of them (although records ) were easy

Beating them could cause a massive score at just a few events and if it happened early in the season it ruined the class and championship. We have had caps of 102 and 101

[woodman]

Yes Terry. It was needed then

But now TTs are all established across the board

New venues would not count until the following year when we would have data

[Barry S]

Just call them class records instead of target times,,,,,,,,,,

[XTR2Turbo]

It seems to me that if the goal is increasing participation in the series you have three discrete groups with possibly different factors

Attracting newbies, incubating novices and retaining experts 

personally I am not convinced that target times are an obstacle to attracting novices. 

i assume ssot have done some research on this but I believe it is more the msa changes the rops and the perception of value given amount of track time vs track days and the need to get organised with licences and equipment rather than just turn up and drive. I probably would never have bothered if I was not located in an area (Herts beds and bucks) where much of the discussion and enthusiasm at the monthly meet was the speed  series.  

Most years there are 15 to 20 cars at blyton that just do the track day. What would the feedback from this group conclude? 

I think (without evidence) the issue for novices staying is the sense that there is close and comparable competition.  I think that from this perspective a handicap system or much tighter restrictions on car spec for novices would be attractive and also the step from novice to expert might be too large

i would have thought that there is a big enough sample of novice drivers that don't do many events or don't stay after a single yeAr to create some robust research 

Let's also not loose sight of the social element to the series and friendships that develop. imho this needs to be promoted as much as anything else

 

[stephenh]

I think you will find that the regular trackdayers who don't sprint want track time. The cost of a day at a trackday is of a similar order to the entry fee for a sprint, and most of the regular trackday enthusiasts compare the relative amount of time on track. They either cannot appreciate the considerable "buzz" of competing, as opposed to the enjoyment of aimlessly driving round and round a track for lap after lap.

Competition simply isn't for everybody, so maybe there is no solution to the problem of attracting most regular trackday enthusiasts to sprinting? And I think that when the Speed Series started there were a lot less trackdays available to the man in the street.

I still think it is cost that puts off many potential new novice entrants.

There are (at least) 2 unconnected issues here: One is how do you encourage new novices to enter, and the other is how do you retain those novices after their first season. I don't think the issue of class A & B target times is relevant to the former, for them cost and possible risk of expensive damage are the main issues. However once they have done a few events, maybe a first season, then the question of target times becomes relevant.