2018 Regs and Explainations

[B.RAD]

1 hour ago, John said:

I know! But that's not what some people think. Some want instant success without developing either their car or themselves and spending the time and by doing so want things made easier so they can get it

I don't know anyone who thinks that way or who has expressed that - is it possible that there is a confusion between providing motivation to newcomers and thinking that offers unearned rewards?

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

10 hours ago, maurici said:

Yep. That is exactly what we want... easier targets to be achiveable by slow cars and non capable drivers.

 

Well that's exactly how it is coming across.

[Onliest Smeg David]

14 hours ago, woodman said:

But now people seem to want and expect to win as soon as they start

 

11 hours ago, John said:

Some want instant success without developing either their car or themselves and spending the time and by doing so want things made easier so they can get it

NOBODY has said that! & I don't know anyone who would!!!! 

I thought it was very clear that I don't want to be gifted anything. & I have developed my Westfield within my resource capability, investing over 50% of original cost.

9 hours ago, BCF said:

I don't know anyone who thinks that way or who has expressed that - is it possible that there is a confusion between providing motivation to newcomers and thinking that offers unearned rewards?

I'm with Barny.

[maurici]

17 minutes ago, John said:

Well that's exactly how it is coming across.

So far... ben discussed about:

Rule back the "mini trophy" regulations.

Leave alone the TT and avoid calculations and so to be stabilized in a few seasons (and you agreed with that)...

And been suggesting a way to encourage the real roadgoing cars (95% of the car on this club) to ensure even more helthier entry lists, and ensure enought people getting bait by the thrill of the competition, and how the TT in the A and B classes aren't helping being stablished by "sprint oriented cars" in the best case... being a crazy calculation from a D class in the worst.

I encourage you to copy and paste where have been suggested that people with slow cars should win. I really think we are loosing the prespective, and I feel many people is in an unnnecessary "defensive position" some even trying to judge each ones personal circumstances over the actual topic.

All our moanings, suggestions... are genuine from the back of the field, from how they can be seen from the "bottom" classes. None of the things been asked to consider or to re-discuss are going to allow a roadgoing pinto with 30yo spax shocks and michelin energy win the championship, so really, i don't understant whats wrong with real roadgoing cars guys, trying to explain how the feel in the roadgoing classes.

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

4 minutes ago, maurici said:

So far... ben discussed about:

Rule back the "mini trophy" regulations.

Leave alone the TT with calculations and so to be stabilized in a few times (and you agreed with that)...

And been suggesting a way to encourage the real roadgoing cars (95% of the car on this club) to ensure even more helthier entry lists, and ensure enought people getting bait by the thrill of the competition, and how the TT in the A and B classes aren't helping being stablished by "sprint oriented cars" in the best case... being a crazy calculation from a D class in the worst.

I encourage you to copy and paste where have been suggested that people with slow cars should win.

I think you have cherry picked some my favoured personal opinions and comments but it is not you I am speaking out against. Conclude from that what you will

[Onliest Smeg David]

48 minutes ago, John said:

Well that's exactly how it is coming across.

That's a shame, as that definitely wasn't intended. & I'm sure I speak for all contributors. The last 2 years I would have welcomed much much more competition in Novice A. My biggest achievement being 2nd in Sprint Championship which I felt well more chuffed with.

Working hard over time to develop car & driver skills/competance to win The Championship is not being challenged. I don't think anyone would wish thus. It's why SS is such a great championship & Westfield competitors achieve FTDs and Class Wins on the day.

To me it's about future Newbies, Novices, keeping involvement and level competition within TTs. Me and the Lardy One will be experts in 2 events, and all I'll be aiming for is to not be the slowest.

[AdamR]

Which bit / comment(s) do you have issue with John? I don't recall anyone saying they wanted any class to be easy.

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

20 minutes ago, AdamR said:

Which bit / comment(s) do you have issue with John? I don't recall anyone saying they wanted any class to be easy.

Again, that's not how its coming across. People seem to be wanting the rules and TTs to be changed to match their spec of car rather than aspiring to match their car's spec to the existing rules. I'm not wanting to get involved in an argument, just stating how it is coming across.

[AdamR]

Righto, gotcha 

From my side it looks like people are asking for TTs to be based upon historical data in ALL classes where possible, rather than calculated from higher classes. The fallout from this would be that some TTs in Class A & B will become 'easier' (realistic!).

[maurici]

*Editet*

Sorry I've been missing in translation.

Now I get johns point

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

5 minutes ago, AdamR said:

Righto, gotcha 

From my side it looks like people are asking for TTs to be based upon historical data in ALL classes where possible, rather than calculated from higher classes. The fallout from this would be that some TTs in Class A & B will become 'easier' (realistic!).

I get your point with A and B TTs if they have been calculated from C and D.  I set most of the C times on ZZRs and know how difficult it was to do over quite a few seasons of car evolution

[Onliest Smeg David]

7 minutes ago, John said:

Again, that's not how its coming across. People seem to be wanting the rules and TTs to be changed to match their spec of car rather than aspiring to match their car's spec to the existing rules. I'm not wanting to get involved in an argument, just stating how it is coming across.

Yes, I can see better what your saying here, but this is not the way you put it earlier!

I do believe these should be looked at to try and encourage many more new competitors to start out on a journey through novicedom. Hopefully once on that journey, enough will be hooked and able to travel into expertdom by developing themselves and upgrading car extensively (or purchasing sprint one) in order to progress through improvement to the forefront of Championship competition, thus maintaining the long term viability of the Series.

[Mark (smokey mow)]

39 minutes ago, John said:

Again, that's not how its coming across. People seem to be wanting the rules and TTs to be changed to match their spec of car rather than aspiring to match their car's spec to the existing rules. I'm not wanting to get involved in an argument, just stating how it is coming across.

I'm not disagreeing with you John but if the SSOT want to attract new blood into the speed series then this is something that needs to be looked at more closely by all involved.

Not everyone has the limitless budgets that many of the current speed series competitors appear to enjoy and new entrants probably won't be willing to spend a fortune changing their car to have a go at sprinting for the first time only to then make it less suitable for the road where it would normally be used.

we all have our own ideas of what would work and what won't. And you clearly have an opinion on this so what are your suggestions for attracting new entrants to the speed series in the future and keeping the initial costs low for them?

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

33 minutes ago, Dave (OnliestSmeg) - Manchester AO said:

Yes, I can see better what your saying here, but this is not the way you put it earlier!

I do believe these should be looked at to try and encourage many more new competitors to start out on a journey through novicedom. Hopefully once on that journey, enough will be hooked and able to travel into expertdom by developing themselves and upgrading car extensively (or purchasing sprint one) in order to progress through improvement to the forefront of Championship competition, thus maintaining the long term viability of the Series.

Why do you not feel that the novice championship (and now mini sprint series) is enough as it pits them against people in the same boat?

[woodman]

I think that most novices will be coming from a trackday background these days and have cars that are already modified in some way from this vision of a 'Standard ' road car. They will generally have uprated brakes, cages , race seats. PPE,  etc.

I think it would be very difficult to define and police a standard road car and that the class will be empty anyway

The MSA rules on ROPS simply put off the casual competitor. Most hoops dont comply , not even the old RAC ones. Also IMHO you would have to be mad not to fit a full cage to compete.

It seems to me that the following would make alot of people happier ( and be easy to implement)-

1) I agree with Adam in that a tweek of a % or two should be made to A + B TTs

2) run a mini/sprint series for experts as well as novices

I am building up a car from an old live SE that Tim P has had in his barn for years. It will be very basic - Std engine of some kind, std gearbox, probably no ARBs , No LSD etc. Using as many S/H bits as poss ( with exception of a new cage) .

Now my point is that it will NOT be competitive in ANY class but it Will allow me to get out there, have some fun , and try my best to get as close to the competitor above me as poss.