2018 Regs and Explainations

[Terry Everall]

Could I just remind some people that the MSA changed the tyre situation by declaring that Avon ZZR tyres and Kuhmos etc were reclassified as List 1C and hence not acceptable in Road Going Classes. All our TTs for classes were mainly from cars running these very competitive sticky tyres. many people did not want to fit inferior list 1B tyres and literally go slower so the SSOT produced Regs that allowed people to still run car with these list 1C tyres if the car s were Road Based. many people loved this as they still had some of these tyres on their cars. A consequence of this is that all clubs have to run these cars in Mod Prod classes along with slick shod cars. We would be in a very difficult situation if we banned list 1C tyres.. I do feel that some of the people saying they cant afford to do many rounds do actually spend money on other motorsport events ( which is their choice) but this means they are supporting another club rather than the Speed Series. 

[Rogers79]

Clearly I’ve missed something, I thought this was about getting numbers up. From the non westfield rounds I did there was 6 in a class on 1b tyres 4 of which were Westfields not registered in the speed series. From the westfield rounds I did I was on my own. I was trying to make the link to getting new people to join and support the westfield club. Apologies, I appreciate it’s complicated and no simple solution to keep everyone happy, there is always compromises to be made. 

[maurici]

44 minutes ago, terry everall said:

I do feel that some of the people saying they cant afford to do many rounds do actually spend money on other motorsport events ( which is their choice) but this means they are supporting another club rather than the Speed Series. 

Honest. I can´t really beleave this comment, and I think is really unfortunate.

No much people has spoken about commit money or time to Sprinting. I´ve been one of them, so I really want to leave my position really clear.

In my case, sprinting is my least favourite form of motorsport, witch I do because I feel Is the only form of competing i´m capable of, (moneywise, and skillwise), but what I do like is to spend time behind the wheel in a track. That is why I do more trackdays than sprinting in general. With a set of tyres that I bought a year ago, that I paid 70 pounds for it and keeps lasting till now after 6 trackdays. Normally in oulton park whitch is literaly down the road from mine. And normally in a weekday that I find myself free for any reason . The return normally is awesome, as for very little I do have loads of fun and I drive the car in a trackday more than in 10 years sprinting.

The only reason I compete is:

1:) Spend time with you lot. (human reward)

2:) Have a bit of thrill to actually aim for some sort of trophy. (Driving reward)

If the second reason is gone... Because unrealistic target times, because I have to throw sums of money I´m not ready to expend, or because the trophy I was aiming for no longer exist or not actual competitor in my class or whatever, then the return is spend time with people who I enjoy to be. But I can do about the same just coming to the events to expectate, give a hand to the people and actually enjoy even more as I don´t have the hassle to carry the car, risking to crash (witch i do very often) for a 5 minutes of driving a day. No matter how many runs I´m given. Is never going to be any similar to a trackday. The only weekend of sprinting I do really enjoy is the blyton weekend, and is mainly becaus of the trackday and the social part of it.

Nobody is going to put the car out in a start line to support a club. If not, the whole club would be competing. Support comes as an "exchange" of an interesting championship. I´ve been unluky this year as my class has been anything but interesting. If you want my support, ask me to come marshaling in the padock, or to be behing the sign on table, but don´t ask me to put my car to compete If I don´t feel is the right thing to do.

As Myself, everyone else that expend its time in a different form of motorsport, will have their genuine reason. That cant be judged, and shouldn´t be even commented.

 

[Terry Everall]

I am a bit baffled Maurici as I thought you enjoyed the 2017 season etc but you put your car up for sale even before you saw any Regs for 2018 so I assume you had already decided not to compete irrespective of TTs or tyres or classes?

[maurici]

32 minutes ago, terry everall said:

I am a bit baffled Maurici as I thought you enjoyed the 2017 season etc but you put your car up for sale even before you saw any Regs for 2018 so I assume you had already decided not to compete irrespective of TTs or tyres amor classes?

Reasons to sell the car, were, mainly expected  changes in my life that sadly haven´t gone ahead. That is why few days ago, and before seeing this thread, I did retire the car for sale, and I started to consider my next investments (shorter diff and tyres, still to deciede) and go for the sprint challenge, as is very unlikely I will be able to commit much more than 3 or 4 weekends, including some double headers. With no challenge, definitely I won´t invest any money in the car. And what won´t happen again is go out in B2 chasing times that not even others in higher classes with ZZR can reach.

Hope all my personal reasons are now clear, and some understand why I´m actively moaning and greatly dissapointed to see the changes.

[B.RAD]

Agree with everything Maurici just said. 

As for me, I'm fortunate to have a choice next year as my dad has a car that I really enjoy double driving with him, which also has the benefit of very little financial outlay beyond entry fees. I'm not going to win anything (the DEWS club allows all comers, so we're up against a Caterham, a Cliosport, a spaceframed Meguiars mini and a Renault 5 Turbo!) but I get to spend time with my Dad and have fun. I only mention this as I think Terry's comment as quoted by Maurici above is slightly unfair.

After the awards do, the bug really bit again and I started to investigate options to keep going in the speed series against an incredibly tight financial year with a lot of personal commitments elsewhere. The sprint challenge would have been the only motivator for me, that's gone, so I'm out.

[woodman]

With regard to the TTs

As I understand it the A times are based on the C (real times) with about 2% added on .

I feel that this is probably a bit harsh ,

The combination of no Dog box and 1B tyres should, IMHO , be worth a bit more , not much tho, perhaps 3% or 4% max

[AdamR]

13 hours ago, terry everall said:

this means they are supporting another club rather than the Speed Series. 

I had similar discussions when racing Mazdas. There were (and still are) 3 different Mk1 MX-5 race series. I'm going to call them Asda, Tesco and Morrisons to make it more relate-able.

Asda was the first supermarket I started buying my racing from. They had their own brand range and a posh branded range. I was buying own brand stuff (racing Mk1s) because I couldn't afford to buy the posh stuff (race a Mk3).

I spent a year buying my racing from Asda and enjoyed it, but thought that things could be improved. They asked for customer feedback, which I gave in detail with reasons, and was told they would look into it. Great - an enjoyable year shopping at Asda and they wanted to improve things too!

However, nothing changed afterwards. This was a shame, but I wanted to remain loyal to them, so continued to shop there for another year. At the end of the second year they asked for feedback again, I gave it again, and again I was told they would look into it. Nothing changed, which was disappointing. It felt like that those who could afford the posh branded products were calling the shots, and they didn't consider that maybe the bulk of the sales were being made to those who weren't able to afford the top end stuff.

So, then I started browsing Tesco and Morrisons, and realised I could buy my racing elsewhere. And I did. And 5 of my mates made the switch with me too, because they'd also had the same concerns which had been voiced but ignored.

Afterwards, Asda realised that they should have been more receptive to feedback from the core of their business. They worked out that those at the top have to look after those at the base, otherwise the whole triangle of hierarchy becomes unstable.

Bit of a yarn, but it's what happened. Asda ended up with tiny, uncompetitive grids and struggled for a few years to turn it round. My overall point is that anyone can buy their motorsport from various different 'shops'. Every customer is different and every shop is different, but they will buy from the one that gives them the best experience (hugely broad word there, encompassing a lot of different things) in return. If a shop has customers and wants to keep them, IMO they should very carefully consider feedback, because it's easier to maintain current customers than it is to find new ones.

The job that the SSOT does is massively appreciated, and I feel like I'm just moaning now which is not cool, but my feedback has been genuine throughout. It's worth mentioning that I believe feedback is about making improvements from one person's viewpoint, and remembering that for them to have been involved in the first place means there are hundreds of other great things going on!

 

For the record I did 6 Speed Series events this year, one trackday, and one day of instruction at the Blyton trackday, so a huge percentage of my motorsport outgoings were put into the SS.

[woodman]

It seems there is quite alot of support for the 'Sprint series'

Have I missed the reason for dropping it for Experts?

[stephenh]

I have refrained from posting on this thread, up to now, because I felt that as I had retired from sprinting 2 years ago, and won't be returning to competition driving in the future, it wasn't for me to comment. However the post by Adam this morning did ring a bell with me.

I do feel that over the period since I started in the Speed Series, 9 years ago, the cost of running a competitive car in the championship for a full season (by which I mean 10 events or more) has increased quite dramatically.  Note my reference to a "competitive" car. In my first full season I think it was, the winner of class F and the overall champion was Richard "Scottish Bloke" Kerr. The performance of the car he then drove was quick, but it wouldn't stand a chance in class F now, it would be completely out classed, I believe. In fact, it would need a very quick driver to make half decent scores in class D, I suspect. Now this doesn't matter to those who can do all the mechanical work on their car themselves, rather than paying someone else to do it, or they have a deep pocket, or better still both. However, It is a shame that there is no class for what most would  consider as standard Westfields to be competitive in the Speed Series. I'm referring of course to cars like John Williams, Dave Richings and "Smokey Mow" and others like that. Of course they do compete from time to time, but  not regularly, and who can blame them when you look at the potential performance of the cars which they have to compete against?

I don't know what the solution is, as I must admit it would be hard to define a "standard" car in the kit car world. But if the committee could come up with a way of making work, then I think it would be worth a try. Maybe the answer would be to have a club scrutineer willing to attend the first few events of the season to inspect prospective cars and to quiz the owner drivers. The possible criteria have been mentioned already by others earlier in this thread. I very much doubt that it could be introduced for this coming season as there isn't time to draft and approve the paperwork, and encourage entrants in such a class, but maybe if feelers were put out for the next season in good time to take soundings and seek interest in advance, it might be a "runner"?  

[AdamR]

An idea I floated with others in the past was a minimum yearly mileage for 'roadgoing' classes, based upon MOT certificate. Appreciate this is difficult to police though, with change of dash / speedo possible, and open to fudging (rolling road for example). As you said Stephen, very hard to come up with a 'solution'...!

[Mark (smokey mow)]

3 hours ago, AdamR said:

An idea I floated with others in the past was a minimum yearly mileage for 'roadgoing' classes, based upon MOT certificate. Appreciate this is difficult to police though, with change of dash / speedo possible, and open to fudging (rolling road for example). As you said Stephen, very hard to come up with a 'solution'...!

I'd thought the same might have worked in the past Adam, but I'm currently realising that all our personal circumstances are different and our road mileage can vary dramatically so it's difficult to put a figure on it.  Typically I would drive 2-3000 miles a year in my Westfield but the last two years I've been so busy I've struggled to do 150miles a year in it.

one suggestion I have offered to the SSOT in the past was additional "bonus points" awarded to owners that drive their car to the circuit rather than trailering them.  I first saw it used at a club level circuit series (i foget which one now) for production cars which was aimed at beginners and had a strong emphasis on keeping the costs down for competitors. For those of us that are novices and tending to only attend events that were within a couple of hours drive of our homes, IMO a bonus points system would help those with "standard" road cars to score more closely at local events to those with "competion" road cars.

[stephenh]

The Ferrari Owners' Club Sprint and Hillclimb championship requires competitors to drive their cars to and from the circuit in order to be eligible for the event.

The main reason I retired from sprinting was my age and state of fitness. However it wasn't the sole reason. 2 secondary reasons were first the cost of running and maintaining a high spec car and secondly I was missing the pleasure of driving the car on the public road regularly. It was road legal, but it was no longer enjoyable. I know I could have reduced the cost of running the car significantly by doing all the maintenance myself, but I didn't feel confident in my ability to re-build/refresh a modern high performance engine, or gearbox, so I had no choice but to pay professionals to do such jobs.

[windy]

Just to pass some comments of mine for thoughts:

I've been doing the speed series from when it started (I think). It was a long time ago now, 20+ years!

When it started I recall 8 events counted towards the overall scores and there were 12 events in the calendar. This made it relatively cheap because there were fewer rounds to count and very competitive because everyone was there for the majority of the events.

It seems now there are too many events in the calendar (35) and too many to score at (10). The fact there are too many events means you are unlikely to compete with your rivals so often.

I accept motorsport is not cheap but reducing the number of events for everyone, not just novices, is one way to reduce costs and encourage more people to participate. Other championships where people are noticing there are a lot of Westfields in the event classes, appear to have fewer rounds. This might be something for the SSOT to look into.

And another thing perhaps we should look at is going back to list 1A tyres. I still can't believe I drove my car all the way to the Isle of Man and back and got fastest time of the day on list 1As!!!! Who needs sticky tyres!!!

 

 

 

[woodman]

Sorry Stephen and Smokey, nice idea , but who would want to set off at 5-00 AM , in the dark , and maybe pouring rain to do an event?