Westfield Eleven Engines....

[Mat Jackson 1975]

I used to have a Westfield Zetec several years ago (currently have a vx220) - but am tempted back with the Westfield eleven.

Problem is I still want a quick car.  Has anyone upgraded the engine and spec with an eleven and put a decent twin cam in?  (Zetec, Toyota etc). Is a great looking car, and would be great with about 150 - 170 bhp to match..

Also, is the suspension and balance as well set up as a standard Westfield?

Mat

[jonjh1964]

http://forum.wscc.co.uk/forum/topic/122870-building-my-eleven/

have a look at this

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

Also, you can put a BMW motorbike cylinder head on top of the A series block. Other option is Rover K series which would easily fit. The type 9 gearbox fits fine. so plenty of options. But if you put more power into it, you would need to upgrade the rear axle.

[Andrew]

I've seen a couple with bike engines.. not sure if they were Westfield replicas or not.. One, years ago at a Croft trackday, had a carbed Fireblade engine fitted, and was on his first shake down test. He'd badly mis-calculated his diff ratio, it was revving it's nuts off at a comparatively low speed. Not sure of the ratios available for a BL axle, but it would be something to look into before heading down that route. 

The other one I saw was at a Brands hatch kit car day. I think it may have been a ATS replica? (or something like that) It had a Triumph triple fitted, sounded gorgeous, but remember it looked a bit odd out on track, bit low perhaps. 

[Andrew]

..and, as a by the way.. This green one was also there, I think it was proper Westfield version? I remember talking to the owner, (Possibly the gent behind it) who said he'd hit a Deer on the way there!  (Brands 2006)

[robhume]

I have built the eleven with a 1.8 formula ford Zetec engine with a dry sump system which all works fine if you are ok with the 

bonnet bulge. I wanted to keep the floor clear with no sump below the chassis rail,  hence the largish bulge.

I would think even if you allowed the sump pan to be below the chassis rails, a bulge would still be required.

I believe the K series is actually taller than the Zetec but look at Westfield World, google search, and there is 

an engine size and weight comparison. To get 160-170hp from a twin cam headed A series would cost a lot.

My A series, (midget) axle has 3J driveline half shafts and LSD. There are various ratios available, mine is 4.5

and mated to a Quaife rocket 4 speed gearbox. 

My engine uses an ME221 ecu and zx10r throttle bodies and with the initial map produced 165bhp.

I did a hill climb in France this year, first time out for the car with only time to do a very basic set up, like, are the

wheels pointing the right way and handled well on a good dry surface. It has 6" front and 7" rear wheels shod

with R888R tyres and was using the Westfield supplied springs and dampers.

In short if you want a winning car, then the eleven is not the one but if you want a car that is different and can be

made to go fast and handle, then it is a fun car.

Please feel free to make contact as I am sure the other Eleven builders will be happy to give you their thought as well.

 

[MK11]

The problem is that very few engines will fit under the bonnet without an ugly hump.

The BMW head on the A Series also won't fit due to the additional height, one possible solution could be to fit a rotary engine as they are very compact.  However, before doing anything I suggest you have a drive in one.

The thing about the XI is the fantastic balance of grip and power, there is not a huge amount of grip available from the skinny little tyres and this means that great deals of power are not required to get the car breaking traction.  I took my XI on several handling days and it was glorious, 4 wheel drifting round bends at laughable speeds balancing the car on the throttle.  The added benefits of this were that the tyres were not that badly worn so I kept them for another year and at £30 a corner they wouldn't break the bank anyway.

I did fit a supercharger to the car for a short while which did seem to increase the torque (judging by the smell of burning clutch) but the problems of heat and the fact that it didn't make the car more fun meant that I took it off again.

In the end the lure of the next car made me sell so I could buy an Ultima, a decision I very much regret.  Yes the GTR has bucket loads of power and the performance will pull your face off, but it is nowhere near as much fun to drive.  You can't play with the limits without getting to stratospheric speeds where it is all going to wrong horribly quickly.

When EVO featured the car in TDCOTY in 2006(?) the car placed 4th from memory against much faster machinery, but what told most was that the car did the most laps during the test as everyone enjoyed it so much.  Oh and the following year EVO did a series where they built an XI.....

[robhume]

Sorry you don't appreciate my "ugly" hump but my eleven was built for a purpose right from the start

and no doubt it will be refined over time to something a little more pleasing but considering it was made in two days flat,

plug, mould and moulding, I'm happy with it.

[Rory's Dad]

Would a flat four Subaru fit and would you have any foot room if it did?? 

[stephenh]

16 minutes ago, Rory's Dad said:

Would a flat four Subaru fit and would you have any foot room if it did?? 

I think that the chassis would be too narrow, although I haven't got any measurements to establish that one way or the other.

My car has only done about 250 miles, so still running in, but from the feel of it so far, I'd say as a fun road car a well tuned big bore A series engine, say 110 bhp which would still be quite tractable (as mine is), is enough to give lively straight line performance. If you were thinking of using one for competition, then of course you might want to look at other newer and bigger engine options. But really I don't think a Westfield XI is an obvious choice as a sprint or hillclimb car. I know that Rob Hume has done this, but if I wanted to sprint a Westfield I'd be using the "seven" style car, not an XI replica as the 7 is so much easier to build/modify to make a very quick sprint/hillclimb car. I know, I've had both! The XI has an engine height issue as already mentioned, also the track is so narrow by modern standards, and making and fitting rollover protection to meet current MSA requirements isn't so easy, and involves cutting the body about quite a bit, so spoiling the (accurate) replica aspect of the XI kit, in my opinion. Also, because of the very enveloping front wings, lock is quite severely restricted, which just gets worse if you try fitting wheels of modern competition dimensions.

There are a number of crown wheel and pinion ratios available, but all are low by modern standards. I have the later, higher, Midget/Sprite ratio (that's higher in gearing terms, lower numerically) and a 5 speed 'box so overdrive top. Even so, at 70 mph the engine is turning over at well over 4,000 rpm.

[Ian Kinder (Bagpuss) - Joint Peak District AO]

34 minutes ago, Rory's Dad said:

Would a flat four Subaru fit and would you have any foot room if it did?? 

Quite wide and way too much torque in turbo flavour for a light weight car!

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

I actually think Rob's car has been done quite tastefully and he has made a  decent job of it.

Enginewise, as a modern day alternative to A series, I would be looking at a 1.25 or 1.6 Fiesta engine,. They share the Sigma bellhousing pattern and Caterham do a host of stuff including sumps, bellhousings etc that would make their fitment a breeze. Even a 1700 Puma would do if you ask me.

 

[MK11]

1 hour ago, robhume said:

Sorry you don't appreciate my "ugly" hump

I apologise, I wasn't referring to yours in particular, just that the hump in my eyes spoils the aerodynamic lines as penned by Frank Costin.  However, Lotus themselves resorted to the "hump" to fit larger engines into the Lotus 15.

[BenD]

you could fit the 1.6 mx5 engine

[MK11]

7 minutes ago, John said:

I actually think Rob's car has been done quite tastefully and he has made a  decent job of it.

Enginewise, as a modern day alternative to A series, I would be looking at a 1.25 or 1.6 Fiesta engine,. They share the Sigma bellhousing pattern and Caterham do a host of stuff including sumps, bellhousings etc that would make their fitment a breeze. Even a 1700 Puma would do if you ask me.

 

All these engines are way too tall for the XI bonnet.  My A Series had about 10mm clearance for the oil filler and 50mm sump to road, mind you I did run lower than most.