Terry Everall Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 We hope to have a double header weekend sprint at Cadwell next year 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 We hope to have a double header weekend sprint at Cadwell next year They had sprints at Cadwell a few years ago Terry? Starting after the mountain and finishing before? .. so missing out one of Cadwell's main features. Shall be at Snetterton on Wednesday.. driving the big 300 circuit, as opposed to the once round the car park sprint track! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onliest Smeg David Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 IMO My Lardy One @ 179bhp fly and 630kg +me Is plenty for trackday And very rewarding keeping up with more exotic drives. But far too slow for sprinting Although still have great time burning the extra adrenaline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Everall Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Yes Andrew, I competed at Cadwell several years ago and it did miss out the mountain but included all the other bits. Done many track days at Cadwell and its a great circuit and very challenging to go really quickly. The mountain is easy ......as long as you lift off over the top.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Not sure if you're serious Terry... That's exactly where not to lift A round at Cadwell would be mega I'm going to throw a grenade in here then leg it... Haha... Those who find track days boring, is it because you're not driving hard enough? Nearly falling off the track at every corner for 15-20 mins (or more) at a time is pretty exciting for me! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onliest Smeg David Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 I'm going to throw a grenade in here then leg it... Haha... Those who find track days boring, is it because you're not driving hard enough? Nearly falling off the track at every corner for 15-20 mins (or more) at a time is pretty exciting for me!Probably!First track days did over 120m/day on track..... After driver instruction by Adam, now driving more on the limit having more fun but I couldn't do it for as long & it's not boring! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 I'm going to throw a grenade in here then leg it... Haha... Those who find track days boring, is it because you're not driving hard enough? Nearly falling off the track at every corner for 15-20 mins (or more) at a time is pretty exciting for me! Spot on Adam! Trackdays explained. The wrong way to do a trackday: Book your lonely self onto some random trackday, find yourself the only se7en on track in a sea of hatchbacks.. after a couple of sessions passing hatches by the score, get bored. The right way: Lets say, discounting engine fragility issues, slicks that go off after 500m, fuel tanks borrowed from lawn mowers etc etc... Terry, Tim Nunn, Delboy, Scottish fella and anyone else that fancies it, get together and book into a trackday at Oulton park. It's a quiet day probably run by MSV, so there's no trouble getting all the cars out on track together. By the end of the day, having chased each other, and been chased, you will know who has the quickest combination, you're knowledge of Oulton park and driving ability will be increased, but above all, you will have thoroughly enjoyed it! That is how we do it! Trackdays, boring? I think not. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenh Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Reverting to the original topic, I'd say that much more important for having enjoyable trackdays in something like a Westie is to get the gearing and the suspension sorted out. The suspension is easy, just take the car to one of the specialists who know our type of car and have the knowledge and kit to do it. We know who they are, it depends where in the Country you are, personally I went to Procomp Motorsport on the north side of Brum., because that was convenient for me to get to, but we know where you can go if you are elsewhere in the Country. Oh, and get some decent tyres. As to the gearing, most Westfields are far too highly geared for serious track use. If you want to be able to use top gear, a 3.92 crown wheel and pinnion is far to high if you have a 5 speed gearbox. Decide realistically what top speed you might achieve with a following wind and work out what gearing you need in top to reach that at a safe max. revs on your engine and you will be very surprised how low a diff ratio (numerically high) you need. In the early days of owning my old car I had 192 (or was it 193?) bhp, and a 3.92 diff., and 5th. gear was a wast of time on track. At the other extreme, when I finished with the car it had 272bhp, and an engine that would rev happily to 8,950rpm, and on 13" 215/55 tyres I didn't run out of revs in top on any track I went to, including Aintree crossing the line at 134mph once, and that was with a 4.44 diff.! Now with the 4.44 diff, it did accelerate in 5th. With a 3.92 diff and 15" wheels, it didn't accelerate very strongly in 4th. let alone 5th. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethHD Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 Well gentlemen, I wasn't expecting that. Judging by the array of comment and opinion I think I'm tempted to tell Henri en France that he best get a standard S2000 kit and learn to drive it first on track; it's reliable, strong and I'd venture still enough to handle and come to terms with, before getting into any further mods. But thank you all for your comments! Sadly because of EU homologation rules it is not possible to licence and insure the road going S2000 kit. Hence Westfield's 'sport turbo'…..3,000 euro to obtain the licence when newly registered (based on CO2 emissions, one off charge) and about 500 euro to insure, fully comp but including 365 days track day cover….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D7PNY Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Reverting to the original topic, I'd say that much more important for having enjoyable trackdays in something like a Westie is to get the gearing and the suspension sorted out. The suspension is easy, just take the car to one of the specialists who know our type of car and have the knowledge and kit to do it. We know who they are, it depends where in the Country you are, personally I went to Procomp Motorsport on the north side of Brum., because that was convenient for me to get to, but we know where you can go if you are elsewhere in the Country. Oh, and get some decent tyres. As to the gearing, most Westfields are far too highly geared for serious track use. If you want to be able to use top gear, a 3.92 crown wheel and pinnion is far to high if you have a 5 speed gearbox. Decide realistically what top speed you might achieve with a following wind and work out what gearing you need in top to reach that at a safe max. revs on your engine and you will be very surprised how low a diff ratio (numerically high) you need. In the early days of owning my old car I had 192 (or was it 193?) bhp, and a 3.92 diff., and 5th. gear was a wast of time on track. At the other extreme, when I finished with the car it had 272bhp, and an engine that would rev happily to 8,950rpm, and on 13" 215/55 tyres I didn't run out of revs in top on any track I went to, including Aintree crossing the line at 134mph once, and that was with a 4.44 diff.! Now with the 4.44 diff, it did accelerate in 5th. With a 3.92 diff and 15" wheels, it didn't accelerate very strongly in 4th. let alone 5th. Would 100% agree that gearing is massively important on these cars. My old zetec with 169bhp was quite quick (for what it was) and felled many a giant at local sprints. However, on track/road 5th was just for cruising and 4th wasn't far off. This was with MT75 gearbox and 3.92 diff. Similar experience in my previous redtop engined car with 195bhp, type 9 box and 3.92 diff. Current car using caterham 6 speed box and I believe a 3.92 diff is a different kettle of fish all together. I use all the gears now but can be a bit tiresome on the motorway! Mega S2000 with the wrong gearing will feel SLOW compared with one with the gearing correctly matched. I know from my S2000 (the actual Honda car!) ownership days, you felt like you were waiting for the next gear they were that long. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigHew Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Just to pour petrol on the flames here, the S2000 was well known for having a close-ratio gearbox. The stock engine made about 240bhp at 8350 rpm and max torque at 7500 rpm. This gives a power band of about 850 (rpm) so when driving the engine hard within a competitive scenario, ie keeping it within that small power band, it's much easier to do with close ratio gears.... However you describe the stock S2000 gearbox, it certainly isn't "long" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenh Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Just to be clear, the point I was trying to make wasn't specifically about the power of my old sprint car, but rather gearing and handling. But also, what top speed you might realistically expect for a given power output. So, as Dave has pointed out, 160/170 bhp with good gearing is likely to be as quick or quicker than 190/200 bhp with "bad" gearing. And 160 bhp with good gearing and good handling/road holding is going to be really enjoyable on trackdays, and is likely to embarrass some much more exotic machinery! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D7PNY Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Just to pour petrol on the flames here, the S2000 was well known for having a close-ratio gearbox. The stock engine made about 240bhp at 8350 rpm and max torque at 7500 rpm. This gives a power band of about 850 (rpm) so when driving the engine hard within a competitive scenario, ie keeping it within that small power band, it's much easier to do with close ratio gears.... However you describe the stock S2000 gearbox, it certainly isn't "long" We will have to agree to disagree on that one. For track work it is recommended and a common to change the diff to improve the ratios.The gearbox itself is an absolute beauty but with standard diff it is too long in my opinion. At a local hill climb for example. A corner where I would usually be well into 3rd gear in my Westfield's I was just touching the limiter in 2nd. Yes, the Westfield's would've been a few mph faster at the same point but there was almost a whole gear between them. Was fortunate enough to compare with another competitor who had done the diff swap and watching his videos back he was SO much quicker as a result. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 The two cars aren't really directly comparable, to be honest. Apart from the weight difference between an S2000 and a Westfield Mega S2000, the Westfield is running a different ecu with different programming of things like VTEC change over point, plus with the Westfield exhaust system in the mix too, the original "book" figures for the engine go out the window. Mine is on a 3.92:1, only cause that's what I had, and wanted hard experiance of how it felt before changing, so that I'd have an idea of to what best to go for. 3.92 ain't great. (With Sierra diffs). The factory seems to go for 3.62, which should be better. 3.14 on paper, mathematically gives better results still, but I suspect will be too far for the engine. A 3.36:1 ratio is available though, which I hope to try, and hope will be a decent compromise as far as giving longer gearing per gear goes, without being too big a struggle for the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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