Jump to content

Newbie needing help - Freelander diff CV joints?


Recommended Posts

Mitchfc

Hi,

 

        I brought a 2007 Westfield Megabusa SEIW a couple of months ago knowing very little (bordering on zero) about mechanics but as a car lover who wanted to get into hillclimbing I thought I would learn along the way.  

 

 The leaning journey has been forced sooner rather than later. I was booked in for the first sprint of the season on the 2nd of April which was a Saturday, unfortunately whilst driving the Westie on the Thursday evening before the event there was a sudden bang a no drive power to the rear wheels. I had a quick look in the dark and assumed the drive shaft had snapped. I phoned Westfield the next day and they said it would be a 5-6week lead time on a replacement. I had a better look in the light of day and the drive shaft looks almost in tacked, the shaft has not been snapped but the problem was that the rod end to the top rear wish bone has snapped. Apologies if I don't get the terminology correct but I have literally just learned what these parts are even called? Doing some research online it seems that this part is not expensive to replace (about £20) but NMB do a military grade rod end which is about £60+vat so I think I will replace all of the 4 rear rod ends for the military grade one so I shouldn't have to worry about it for quite some time hopefully. 

 

  I would be happy if that was my only problem but when the track rod end snapped it pulled the drive shaft out of the differential and ripped the CV boot. At first I thought that the CV boot could be replaced and the drive shaft could just be popped back in. After a closer inspection this evening it appears the inner CV joint is not looking too good, there are three bearings/rings which make up the freelander CV joint and one is intact but the other two are probably back on the road somewhere. I am missing the needles and the rings? 

 

  Any advise would be much appreciated and in particular I would love any info regarding;

 

  • ​The original rod ends are 1/2" bolt diameter with a 1/2" ball bore diameter there is a reducing bush on the ball bore and I think the actual bolt that they fit on to is 7/16" and the bush brings it up to 1/2" My question is should I just play it safe and get the 1/2"x1/2" rod ends and use the original reducing bushes again or shall I go with the 7/16"x1/2" and do away with the bushes? The 7/16" are £14 inc vat cheaper each 

 

  • I don't fully understand the lefthand righthand thread thing. I undid all of the lock nuts and all four of them (2 each side) loosened and tightened the same way which was clockwise to go on to the rod ends bolt. I think the reason the rod end snapped is because the lock nut was loose and perhaps the handing was incorrect before hand and lead to the failure of the original rod end? When I was testing the lock nuts for the handing the opposite top wishbone lock nut was already loose? Which handing should they be?

 

  • The differential is a Freelander 3.21 Quaife LSD so I was assuming the inner CV joint was a freelander apparently the drive shaft was custom made and the outer is a sierra. Where the CV joint needs rebuilding what needles and rings do I need and is this a difficult job to do?
  • Will the inner CV boot which needs replacing just be a Freelander boot. I did have a look online thinking that this would be easy but it appears there are loads of different Freelander boots? Does anyoen know which size I need?

 

  Sorry there are so many questions, I will be appreciative of any advice...........

 

  I was unable to upload photos as it says the image is too large and I don't know how to resize them but I can e-mail photos to anyones e-mail address if that helps just send me the address. 

 

 

Many thanks

 

Mitch

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
BillyPee

Welcome Mitch. I had similar questions a while back (here is the thread). Mine were all RH thread and I got 1/2" and used the reducer. That doesn't mean its guaranteed to be right for you, so if you can post photos someone more knowledgable will be along to tell you for sure.

 

The lock nuts (sometimes called half nuts) need to be kept tight to avoid failure and there was a recent thread on here, last couple of months, about this. It also mentioned the different rod ends (sometimes called rose joints) that were available to suit all budgets and applications.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary

Hi, sorry, I've no personal experiance of what parts are uses with the Freelander diff, so can't advise on specifics there...

Re the CV joints, you can get replacement boots, but not, I don't think the specific innards that you mention. I think you'll need to buy a new CV joint. It may well be Freelander specific, if it bolts to an original Freelander half shaft in the diff. If it's any help, I'd try Westfields Mark Walker to see what model Freelander the CV joint should be from.

As for the rose joints, all of them used in the Westfields suspension are right hand threaded, your right in your original sizes, and yes, when replacing, some owners do buy the specific 1/2 X 7/16" joints. The lock nuts need checking for tightness, while normally if any had worked loose, I would just tighten them up, as you've already had one failure, in this instance, I'd be inclined to replace any of the joints with loose locknuts, just for peace of mind - you don't know their history and one has already gone, plus you want to sprint, which will put extra load on the car. Better safe than sorry.

Link to post
Share on other sites
phelpsa

Talk to Nick Skidmore on uphillracers about rod ends. He had a very good deal on half inch mil spec NMBs.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Chris King

Mitch - moved to tech talk - should get more answers here. Of course if you have a particular reason to want it in "members only" please let me know!

Link to post
Share on other sites
XTR2Turbo

The freelander diff uses Tipoid joints not the CV joints a Sierra uses.

 

If no joy with the factory try www.jandrcvjoints.co.uk

 

The rear of my busa is apart at the moment so pm me is you want me to check any measurements

Link to post
Share on other sites
Mitchfc

  Thanks a lot for the advise guys!! I will contact Nick Skidmore (uphill climbers) and Mark Walker (Westfield) and see if I can get get a decent price on the Rose joints the 1/2"x1/2" UNF are actually £72+vat on the Merlin motorsport website. I would rather pay more for something that is of high quality (military grade) and will last but if I can get the same product cheaper from Nick its a no brainer. Going to replace all of the 4 rear rose joints and as advised get all of them in a right handed thread and keep an eye on the lock nuts in the future.

 

  Hopefully Mark from Westfield can tell me the Freelander model as you mentioned Dave and considering the CV joint can not be repaired I will try and find a whole replacement.  

 

  Thanks for the link to the jandrcvjoints website it looks ideal but when I put in the details it takes me to a page with 4 different options, when clicking on one of them it comes up as an error but not to worry if I can get the model/type CV joint info from Westfield I will give J&D a call. 

 

  I will have a look at the tread link you posted Billy now cheers.

 

Thanks again for the help, I'll let you know how I get on and I'm sure I will be back soon with some questions for ya??  :db-westy: (very fitting emoji cuz the wheels are not turning)

Link to post
Share on other sites
Mitchfc

Billy - really useful thread to read through thanks. The McGill rose joints a hell of a lot cheaper than the NMB's. As I mentioned before I would rather pay more for the peace of mind of knowing they are really high strength rose joints considering I intend on hillclimbing/sprinting the car but am I going to be just throwing money away unnecessarily? Does anyone know the difference in quality between the two? Still planning on getting in touch with Nick Skidmore so may be able to get the NMB's at a better price than Merlin but don't know just yet?

 

Please see links to both rose joint below;

 

NMB - https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/nmb-rod-end-1-2-bore-with-1-2unf-right-hand-thread-art8ecr

 

McGill - http://www.mcgillmotorsport.com/1-2-x-1-2-right-hand-male-xmr8-ultra-high-performance-rod-end-23/

 

Cheers Mitch

Link to post
Share on other sites
Mitchfc

Just wanted to add an update;

 

  I contacted Nick Skidmore nicktheskid@hotmail.co.uk and he did the exact same NMB rose joints found on the Merlin motorsport website for £72+vat each code ART8E®

for £25 each of 5 for £100 no vat including postage :d he e-mailed me back instantly and got it sorted, really good guy to deal with and what a bargain!

 

  I also got in touch with Mark Walker from Westfield who also got back me instantly and was extremely helpful!

 

He said;

 

Hi Mitch

                Thanks for the mail.

 

  These drive shafts were originally made by GKN. They consisted of a standard inner and lobro outer.

Unfortunately these are no longer available through our stores department from GKN due to volume of supply.

The inner tripod joint to my knowledge was a standard front inner joint from the Freelander.

Unfortunately I do not have a model or year as the units were supplied as one through GKN.

Rather than you try to get these through GKN.

Theres a company called CPS Drivelink based in Sheffield, their number is 0191 482 1690, give them a call and if you send the shaft to them they will refurbish the unit itself.

They are very competitive on pricing and will be able to sort things quickly for you.

 

Hope the above helps

 

Kind regards Mark

 

  Couldn't be more pleased with the advise and outcome, really looking forward to getting the Westie back on the road now!

 

Thanks again guys I really appreciate the help!!

Link to post
Share on other sites
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary

Mitch, I hope you don't mind, but your update is so useful to other owners with Freelander diffs, which we don't have huge amounts of info on, I've moved it to the FAQ section where it will be a handy reference to all.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Mitchfc

Yeah go for it Dave hopefully it helps someone else in the future!

 

Cheers 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
XTR2Turbo

Thanks .. useful info

 

David

Link to post
Share on other sites
Chris King

Mitch, I hope you don't mind, but your update is so useful to other owners with Freelander diffs, which we don't have huge amounts of info on, I've moved it to the FAQ section where it will be a handy reference to all.

Looks like I've been out-modded by a more experienced mod :)

Mitch

CPS drivelink are not in Sheffield they are in Gateshead in case you needed to know.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary

Sorry Chris, hadn't seen that post! It was much more suited to Tech Talk, but a final definitive WSC Ltd reply had info far to handy to leave getting ever more buried in Tech Talk!

Note though, how I've left a link from where it was, just in case anyone, unaware of the move, went looking...

Link to post
Share on other sites
Chris King

Not a problem Dave I was only pulling your leg a bit :)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Please review our Terms of Use, Guidelines and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.