confused.com Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 I feel it is now time to get rid of the 22 year old Avons that i currently fitted. I have 185/60 R14 wheels and am struggling to find very much to replace them with. I was advised to get Yoko AO21R, but have subsequently found they're banned from road use. I don't put it on the track, i only ever use it for road. I also turn into a jelly when it rains for fear of being thrown into a ditch. Camskill recommended the Nankangs and a subsequent tinternet search shows many people rate them for track use, but not so many comment on what they're like on the road and i can't find anything that refers to them in the wet. Can anyone offer some guidance... the price looks good though at £60 each for the 120 compound. Quote
Pistol Pete Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 For road use you want the 180 compound, a bit harder and should last a little longer. They are B rated for wet stopping but as I understand it that doesn't cover aquaplaning. However they look like they come with quite a lot of tread and have quite a lot of grooves so should be ok. Quote
TAFKARM Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 If it's 100% road use, why not go for something like an R1R? Quote
Castlecroft Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 The yoko 21R are still listed as a road legal tyre on the yoko web site... And I have a set on my spare set of wheels - and the tyres perform really well, great for road use..... http://www.yokohama.co.uk/Tyres/Motorsports-Tyres/Road-Legal-Sports-Tyres/ADVAN-A021R I think you may be getting confused with the new tyre regs for Motorsport, where the 21R's are now only allowed on cretins aged cars.. Quote
confused.com Posted March 4, 2016 Author Posted March 4, 2016 I can't seem to find the R1R for my size and the Toyo website doesn't list them. Camskill salesman said the A021R isn't available anymore (apart from track use), Castlecroft if you know where i can find them that'd be great. http://www.lotus7.club/forum/techtalk/a021r-be-discontinued Quote
Castlecroft Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 Tyre drive web site states they can supply http://www.tyredrive.co.uk/tyre.php?tyre=185%2F60r14+yokohama+a021r+s+82h&did=2 £92 a corner Quote
B.RAD Posted March 4, 2016 Posted March 4, 2016 For road use you can't beat the falken ze912 - highly predictable and great in all conditions. Bargain too! Quote
confused.com Posted March 4, 2016 Author Posted March 4, 2016 Cheers Castlecroft. I've just been reading up more on the banning of the AO21R and found Murraymotorsport. They list the AO21R as discontinued but there is a replacement.... the AO21R . http://www.murraymotorsport.com/products/yokohama-advan-a021-r-tyre the discontinued one and http://www.murraymotorsport.com/products/yokohama-advan-a021-r-tyre-1 the replacement £68 each seems like a bargain Quote
Welly Jen Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 I feel it is now time to get rid of the 22 year old Avons that i currently fitted. I have 185/60 R14 wheels and am struggling to find very much to replace them with. I was advised to get Yoko AO21R, but have subsequently found they're banned from road use. I don't put it on the track, i only ever use it for road. I also turn into a jelly when it rains for fear of being thrown into a ditch. Camskill recommended the Nankangs and a subsequent tinternet search shows many people rate them for track use, but not so many comment on what they're like on the road and i can't find anything that refers to them in the wet. Can anyone offer some guidance... the price looks good though at £60 each for the 120 compound. I can't answer your question on the Nanking's. However, at 22 years old, the rubber on your Avon's are going to be very hard and are probably responsible for your fear of going backwards in to the nearest ditch. When I got my car it had a set of ten or twelve year old tyres on it and they had no grip at all. Can't remember the model, but they were Yokohama, so a brand with a reasonable reputation. Virtually anything you put on, even the cheapest teflon coated ditch finders will probably feel better! The WSCC forum has lots of tyre discussions and I find them very confusing and hard to get clear answers. This is down to a couple of things. Tyre feel and performance is very subjective, so it is difficult to compare peoples experience. Also peoples needs for a tyre vary. For a dry weather track day tyre people want ultimate grip and enough wear to get a reasonable number of track days out of it. People in the speed series want the best grip, preferably from cold and aren't too worried about wear life. For those of us that use our cars almost exclusively on the road, especially all year round, then our needs are different. This is my take on requirements for a road tyre, based on my experience. You need enough wear resistance that the tyres will last up to five years or so with the amount of miles you do. Beyond five years the rubber will be starting to harden and grip will go down. As you have seen with your Avon's, these cars don't tend to do the miles that most tin tops cover and with their light weight they can get to a great age without wearing out standard hard rubber road tyres. The tyre needs to be able to cope with cold weather, rain and standing water. It should also still have some grip on snow if you are caught out. I am on my second set of Toyo R888 tyres. These aren't available anymore, but there is a similar replacement. These are a track day tyre, but road legal. They are superb in the summer on dry roads. Surprisingly good in the wet and cold, giving good grip and plenty of feel and progressive slip when they reach their limits. On snow they have no grip at all. I was once caught in a sudden and unexpected flurry of snow and on a straight road and a slight up hill the rear wheels kept spinning away. Fortunately I drove out the other side, but if it had carried on I would have had to abandon the car till it melted. R888's have a reputation for aquaplaning in standing water. Never experienced it, but that is probably because I back off a lot in these conditions in compensation. They are good in that their wear rate in the GG compound is about right for me and they come in 13" wheel sizes at a reasonable price. I would be willing to accept worse dry weather ultimate grip for better cold and wet grip and some ability to handle a bit of snow. These would be my ideal tyres for my use. Toyo R1R's probably came close, but I would have to change to 15" wheels. I can't give a recommendation. I am looking for a replacement for the R888's myself when the time comes that meet my requirements above. 14" is hard to find good tyres for these days. I changed from 14" to 13 for this reason on my car with a secondhand set from a forum member. Might be worth looking for a new set of wheels too in a size with more available, 15", or 13"? Wheel diameter is a whole other can of worms though. Jen 2 Quote
B.RAD Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 Agree with everything Jen said - useage massively affects tyre recommendation. I feel quite fortunate to have tried a wide variety on my Westfield as I've done a wide variety of driving with it - started out with long tours, then added in some trackdays, and am now competing in the speed series. Car came with 16 year old Bridgestones fitted - massive smiles from lots of sideways action with little provocation but utterly useless otherwise. Had gone hard and were basically lethal. Then fitted some 5 year old Yokohama a048s in medium compound as I started to venture on to track too. These are good once warm (after 2 hot laps on a circuit) but I found them unpredictable on the road, causing moments where there shouldn't have been any and very hard to drive safely in the cold and wet. Next up was SG compound R888 - these I liked on road and track, more predictable than the yokohama's, slightly less warm up time required and generally more consistent. However were also risky in the cold and wet (particularly cold - the grip on these tyres comes from some warmth in the compound and without it, they're pretty solid and therefore slippy). Great for trackdays and the wear rate was decent, even in SG compound. Didn't really like them on the road as they were inconsistent. Medium compound Avon zzr - purely for track day use. Fantastic tyre. Hugely flattering! Much better grip from cold, work right from the pit lane, and give constant feedback and control. Better in cold temps too, although I'm not sure why. Decent wet grip but I didn't use them on the road. Kumho v70a supersoft - tyre for sprinting only. Insane. It will take me a few more years yet to get my driving skills up to the limit of these tyres. Have been tested in wet and performed well, would be happy with a set of medium compound as an all round road\track tyre. And finally, my most recent purchase - the previously mentioned Falken ze912. Available from £30 each in 15" or £50 each in 13". Have done a lot of miles on these, including road in all conditions and some amazing track days. THE MOST predictable tyre I have ever driven. Tells you exactly what it's doing, where it's going and when it's nearing its limits, and when you get to the limit, it maintains control and predictability allowing you to either go wild and drifty or bring it back in safely. Love this tyre. Proper road tread for all weathers but not so hard that it doesn't wear - got nice rubbering on the tread face after trackdays, a sign of a good balance in tread compound. The weird thing is that I keep recommending this tyre on threads like this and get ignored or overlooked, presumably because it's not an r888 or some other "popular" choice. However when I was at Anglesey, while wondering through the pits, I spotted a TVR and a Porsche GT3 both wearing them. Must be something OK about them! I run 18psi rear and 16psi front to allow for the lighter weight of our cars, but that will be a specific setting for each individual set up. 4 Quote
confused.com Posted March 5, 2016 Author Posted March 5, 2016 The WSCC forum has lots of tyre discussions and I find them very confusing and hard to get clear answers. Exactly how i feel Jen, thank you and BCF for your thoughts. BCF i did look for the Falkens, but as you just mentioned, i couldn't find them in 14". Unfortunately, the budget is not there for new wheels at the moment due to the sheer amount of things i need to get done to the car in preparation for Le Mans this year. I realise that tyre choice is a personal choice, but it is interesting to hear peoples views, especially since the new EU ruling on what is and is not allowed on the road. Searching the forums i can't seem to find very much on this subject since the AO21/48 etc have had the E rating removed. I have read quite a few people saying they're going to buy a stock of them before they were withdrawn and not knowing what they're going to replace them with. Camskill and demon tweeks only do the Nankang and R888 for my tyre size. Checking again on Murray Motorsport i see the new AO21R linked above, has "without E rating" written below the description. The link to tyrdrive from Castlecroft regarding the AO21 doesn't mention whether or not they have an E rating. The worry for me here is that if they are using up old stock of this rubber, how difficult will it be for me to replace 1 tyre if need be, i don't really want to have to replace all 5 just because 1 gets damaged. Quote
Castlecroft Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 As mentioned previously in the thread, toyo have the 21r listed on their road legal sports part of their web site.. http://www.yokohama.co.uk/Tyres/Motorsports-Tyres/Road-Legal-Sports-Tyres/ADVAN-A021R Also found the following link stating that as of 2015 they dropped the E marking... http://www.briscaf2.com/_assets/documents/2015/2015-01-22%20-%20yokohama%20tyre%20statement%20-%20v1.0.pdf But agree need to contact the to check E marking, ..... Our current set are defiantly E marked Quote
Kit Car Electronics Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 And finally, my most recent purchase - the previously mentioned Falken ze912. Available from £30 each in 15" or £50 each in 13". Have done a lot of miles on these, including road in all conditions and some amazing track days. THE MOST predictable tyre I have ever driven. Tells you exactly what it's doing, where it's going and when it's nearing its limits, and when you get to the limit, it maintains control and predictability allowing you to either go wild and drifty or bring it back in safely. Love this tyre. Proper road tread for all weathers but not so hard that it doesn't wear - got nice rubbering on the tread face after trackdays, a sign of a good balance in tread compound. The weird thing is that I keep recommending this tyre on threads like this and get ignored or overlooked, presumably because it's not an r888 or some other "popular" choice. However when I was at Anglesey, while wondering through the pits, I spotted a TVR and a Porsche GT3 both wearing them. Must be something OK about them! Interesting - I see these are available at 205/60/13 too - could be quite tempted to try a set 1 Quote
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted March 5, 2016 Posted March 5, 2016 Interesting - I see these are available at 205/60/13 too - could be quite tempted to try a set There's usually quite a few members who've tied the other tyre options, so I guess that's why they tend to get chosen over the Falkens; people find the safety in numbers reassuring! If we get a few more people trying them, and generating positive results, then I'm sure they'll become more popular. Quote
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