DamperMan Posted March 8, 2016 Author Share Posted March 8, 2016 I'm saying this tongue in cheek.. I'm sure Blink has no allegiances towards the products they sell and the earn a living from. That's like me saying i'm un-biased . If i was a stick of rock i'd have Spax written though me. Yesterday after lunch I removed the rears off my car. Dyno tested the dampers and recorded the valving make make up of the dampers. Took some pics. Also noted some improvements for the production dampers. I'll do the same for the fronts today.. Assuming I can work out how to I'll upload all the information tonight/ tomorrow. Time permitting. Tony_shakeshaft@spaxperformance.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamperMan Posted March 8, 2016 Author Share Posted March 8, 2016 These have been on and off my car several times and are a little grubby 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhutch Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Looks good to me. I have just got new front dampers to go with the new rears five years ago, but I was also replacing old spax dampers which where likely the originals from when the car was new in 1991. 25 years is not a bad lifetime. Daniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamperMan Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 Some numbers for those of you who are interested. As I said previously numbers don't necessary tell all the picture. And there are other factors like tyres, pressures, damper oil temp, personal preference!. Front damper set on Click 10 as I have on my car. The eagle eyed will spot that the figures in the tables are different to the graphs by 50 N, this is to account for the Gas pressure. Removing the 50N from the bump and adding it to the rebound allows me to look at pure damping figures. Similarly the rears on click 4 as I have set on my car I've had a few questions and a few orders so far... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLiNK Motorsport Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Thanks for the Force Vs Displacement plots and the excel PVP Force Vs Velocity plot : Have you got the full CVP for the Force Vs Velocity showing the rebound opening/closing and compression opening/closing? Could we also see the Force Vs Displacement plots for the different click adjustments on the dampers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamperMan Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenstreak-Andy D Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Interesting read........ This is my experience..... I previously ran factory Gaz shocks and no arb on my road focused Sei Westie. When geo'd using hunter alignment the outcome was very good but I had been in other Westie's which had sharper handling. So a new set of Protec's, (recommended by many Westie enthusiasts) and new Plays Kool ARB's were a winter upgrade. Having just had my Westie geo'd by Fraser only yesterday, on the same hunter alignment kit, the outcome was a revelation! Turn in was crisp, cornering confidence was much improved too, the Westie just felt more 'planted' to the road. I had more confidence in accelerating and braking too. (Camber and toe same setting, but ride height dropped 5mm) Remember Blink support mx5 race teams. Fraser and Richard have many years experience gained from road and track of both mx5 and Westfields. They know what works, hence my excitement with the step change I now have with my Westie. So my point is, for the average road Westie with an enthusiast driver, i would recommend the solution I have described on my Westie. Spax shocks may have given the same result, I will never know! What would convince the next enthusiast to choose Spax over Protec? Andy PS, I have no business interest or ties with Blink Motorsport, in Winsford, Cheshire. I am just your average road Westie owner! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamperMan Posted March 12, 2016 Author Share Posted March 12, 2016 i'm not here to run down competitors products which would be very easy to do. I'm not trying to make stupid claims the dampers will revolutional use your life. And clearly people will have there views. People selling competitors products have there vested interests along with considerable experience and knowledge. When I considered trying to re spark the Spax name in the westfield community I knew it would hit some resistance. The main specialists already have there alegences to the damper suppliers of choice. Or have there proven packages. I looked at prices and I can't produce a damper which I'd be happy with for the price which protech do. That's why I decided to sell direct. Cutting out the middle man. Fitting a roll bar to the front will certainly change the way a car feels significantly. But some care needs taking when changing the roll stiffness of one axle. I have regular conversations people and who need advise.. Most are trying to develop faster track cars and each year stiffen the suspension more and the car feels better yet track times often not improving even though they also have more power. Often stiffer setups can give more confidence in the dry which can give better track times as the driver can drive faster. But ultimate grip often reduces. Unless other factors are adjusted. It's all about the best compromise ..... Very stiff suspension is often good for over Tyred car or short races as the tyres heat up quicker. Cars set up for drifting are not necessarily going to have great track times but do give the drivers great feed back and control. And the variation in grip between wet and dry become much wider. Single seaters will often have different setups, gear ratios and so on for different tracks, weather conditions... Then when it rains they disconnect the roll bars...... All of which are off topic. and I'm waffling on like a bore.... I'm offering a good value quality damper with a whole load of benifits as listed in the initial post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenstreak-Andy D Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Tony, With due respect you are missing my point What incentive would you offer to tempt potential customers to Spax when Protec's have a proven record from a number of Westfield owners? Don't get me wrong, competition is always good. I wish you well with your improved shock Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamperMan Posted March 12, 2016 Author Share Posted March 12, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dommo Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Don't go for a yellow bath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.RAD Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 I think these look great and a good option - people only recommend protech because someone tried them and advocated them. They get a good rep because they replace ancient old shocks. Pretty sure anything would be great as a replacement under those conditions. Sure they're a great shocker, so that helps! I don't see it being any different from any other product, new or relaunched. Just needs a few people to jump in and give it a go. I'm guessing there's a pretty good reason Spax were fitted originally so if I hadn't already sorted my shocks, I'd be happy to give these a go. Best of luck Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLiNK Motorsport Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Hi Tony, some of your responses to our posts (and Andy's) seem a little strange: I'm sure Blink has no allegiances towards the products they sell and the earn a living from There's always one smarty pants Na that's all the graphs I had time for. Not got all day you know! BLiNK Motorsport can supply a range of dampers from different manufacturers and we have NO allegiances to any of them! At the price level you have chosen for your product we do particularly like the Protech product, not because we make a lot of money selling them but because we think the product offers extremely good value for money! We actually make very little profit selling the damper, especially since we dyno each one and provide damper plots with every unit sold. It seems strange that someone who is a director of a shock absorber company should accuse a reseller of having particular allegiances - surely you are more likely to have a strong bias towards YOUR OWN product? When I considered trying to re spark the Spax name in the westfield community I knew it would hit some resistance I think if you actually read the thread again you would see that at no point has anyone offered any resistance to your product - quite the contrary - if your product is good we would be more than happy to promote it - hence the earlier offer of providing an independent view point. As I said - we make very little profit on dampers so we are not tied to one company; we sell what products we believe are best at that price point and would more than happily recommend/sell your products if that was the case - name branding has no effect on our choice. Fitting a roll bar to the front will certainly change the way a car feels significantly. But some care needs taking when changing the roll stiffness of one axle. I have regular conversations people and who need advise.. Most are trying to develop faster track cars and each year stiffen the suspension more and the car feels better yet track times often not improving even though they also have more power. Often stiffer setups can give more confidence in the dry which can give better track times as the driver can drive faster. But ultimate grip often reduces. Unless other factors are adjusted. It's all about the best compromise ..... Very stiff suspension is often good for over Tyred car or short races as the tyres heat up quicker. Cars set up for drifting are not necessarily going to have great track times but do give the drivers great feed back and control. And the variation in grip between wet and dry become much wider. Single seaters will often have different setups, gear ratios and so on for different tracks, weather conditions... Then when it rains they disconnect the roll bars...... All of which are off topic The above quote was in response to Andy's post about the set-up we did on his car. We supplied the dampers/springs for Andy's car and we then carried out a Geo. From your response it would appear that you have assumed the car has been set 'quite stiff' You have provided some dyno plots for your dampers and I am sure you are well aware that damping rates have a large effect on 'ride comfort', far more than the spring rates do and the product you are selling is aimed at road use? The high speed compression damping rate of your damper is considerably higher than the Protech unit we supply and the compression damping forces are double - this would generally lead to a much harsher ride on the road than the Protech damper with the same springs fitted - do not assume that all race engineers set their cars up stiff! We are not here to 'bash' your product; we would love to promote it if it's better than the competition. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosKev Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Surely it's worth sending some to Blink(or another company that know Westfield/seven type cars,like Procomp)and getting them to test a set and compare them to the protechs? Both on a car and on there dyno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamperMan Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 That's a long message ... You are right I'm biased but in the same message I did say so to. I'm writing stuff tongue in cheek. Apologies if it's not reading that way. As regards to the roll bar I was just rambling, I do that . And Mr blink I'm not saying anything you do is wrong.. I think if we went to the pub together we'd have a great time just bore every one else. Generally as far as damping is concerned I like as much compression as is reasonable without causing to much vertical acceleration of the car, and as little rebound as is reasonable . And the damping to be well ballence between bump and rebound as the shaft changes Direction. Often I prefer relatively low, low speed rebound settings but ballence them with stiffer low speed compression settings Clearly If the damper is to stiff in compression it becomes a shock transmitter. To soft rebound becomes floaty. I'm sure you have data on what sort of compression forces the monotubes are running? It would be interesting to see. Got to go and redress my hand now which is leaking every where... bl**** gardening and tree surgery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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