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1700 X-flow general lack of power


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BCF I'm in West Sussex, i have no idea what a Geo is (Geometry?) 

There aren't any decent tuning type places round here to my knowledge.

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Yep geo is geometry setup - our cars are incredibly sensitive to set up and a proper suspension alignment and ride height adjustment by someone who knows what they're doing makes a world of difference. If you can find someone who can do a rolling road (RR) set up as well as geo then you're onto a winner.

I don't know anyone in the West Sussex area but I'm sure someone on here will have a recommendation. If you can get up to Northampton, then NMS (Northampton Motor Sport) come highly recommended.

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Austec in Crawley

RR and tuning

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Missed the point Tel, it's a new car to the OP so might not be set up to him - when I first got my Westfield, with a cross flow of almost identical spec, I too was disappointed with its pace. Turned out the engine was producing a mighty 105bhp, but I got the Geo adjusted and had the corner weighting done to suit me, and all of a sudden I could hustle the car MUCH faster than I could before as it wasn't bouncing all over the road anymore. Power does not always equal fast on the road.

I realise the OP doesn't mention handling but based on my experience thought it was worth pointing out. We've all heard of Westfield's bought and sold as "doesn't drive like expected" where the owner has never had it set up properly.

Ref the 234 cam - it's not great for peak bhp but gives a great torque curve! Provided the ignition etc is set up properly of course.

 

^^^ all very true. When we got the early learning center car it had been through a few owners, done little mileage etc.... not surprising as it drove like a total dog.

Mapping? What mapping??? I think a blind mans dog did it, mega lean up to 2000revs then mega rich and ran out of injector around 5500 (although it was "mapped" to 7000), toe was 2 deg out, yes 2 deg on the front, all wheels pointing in different directions. It took a bit of jiggery pokery and now it's mint :-)

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+1 on getting the suspension geometry checked. It makes a huge difference. Our cars are very sensitive to slight changes in geometry. People obsess about peak engine power, but it is the complete package of engine, gearbox, differential, suspension set up, shock absorbers, springs, tyres and driver(!) that make a fun fast safe car. Having someone who knows them and has the equipment to check them out go over yours would be a very worthwhile investment.

 

Jen

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Thing is, the OP is saying he has a feeling he is lacking power, so before we get too bogged down with suspension set ups, maybe worth checking the engine is running properly first ;)

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Burtons always a good place to look for information on the X-flow http://www.burtonpower.com/tuning-guides/tuning-guide-pages/ford-kent-crossflow-tuning-guide.html

 

Assuming the engine mechanical bits are in good order, things to look at would be a) ignition timing b) cam timing (can make a real difference if off) c) carbs set correctly and good quality fuel d) reasonable exhaust system (not restrictive) - i would have thought you should be seeing at least 120bhp at the flywheel but don't forget you could be losing 30-35 of those by the time it gets to the wheels .... as others have said, a rolling road session only way to tell and then work on the tweaking the cheapest bits first ???

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I'm hoping some of you chaps that are still sporting the trusty old crossflow might be able to give me some guidance.

 

I have a 1700 xflow with twin weber 40's, a vulcan stage 3 head, accralite pistons, kent 243 cam and a GBH track/fast road T9 box plus a few other bits and bobs.

 

I would have thought that the car should be pretty quick (given the limitations of old technology), but it isn't. I was struggling to keep up with a prius last summer on the sussex back roads.

 

Has anyone got any ideas what i should be looking at to  release the power that it should be producing?

 

Any help and advice gratefully appreciated.

 

A power run at a rolling road will at least quantify the current output and remove subjectivity from the equation, as one man's "pretty quick" is another's slow. FWIW, my 1700 Kent Crossflow with 2 x Weber DCOE 40 carbs makes about 100 bhp at the wheels (estimated at 110 bhp at the flywheel) and it would easily keep up with a Prius. From the spec you say you have, 130 bhp seems like a reasonable number to be expecting and will be more than enough for most to describe it as "pretty quick" in a half tonne car.

 

There are a few things to check before you book in though, i.e. are you getting 100% throttle, is the timing OK, check spark plugs for whether the jetting is too rich or lean, do a service, check fuel pressure, service the carbs, etc. These are all tasks for the home mechanic and will save you £s over paying someone to check over and fix these things as they are simple but time-consuming.

 

HTH,

Bill

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On the geo setup, couple of names that have appeared on doing a search are Partridge Green Motorsport and Boss Racing in Kent.  Haven't used them myself but they seem to get good reviews.

 

HTH

Mel

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This is not about handling but POWER!!!!!

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Hi,

I'm a newbie but have a reasonably quick x flow. IMHO IF the engine is to the stated spec, or anywhere near it, it should feel QUICK!

Set up on Geo, decent tyres etc will make a huge difference to cornering ability and lap times, but the general lack of oomph seems strange. As above, compression test dry, and then with oil can give a good indication of what's going on, if anything, and then it's plugs, timing and carbs. Exhaust and manifold can play a big part too.

Hope you get it sorted.

Regards,

Mart.

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Thanks guys for your replies. Due to mothers day i had to do the right thing, so i did a compression test  :)  and removed my dash to start getting the gauges out for overhaul.

Since rebuilding the engine i've done probably around 3500 miles and put a composite head gasket on.

 

Bearing in mind yesterday was the first time i've turned the engine over since last summer (and it didn't start yesterday) i went straight into a compression test today. Dry i got 9, 8.5, 10,10 (bar)

A squeeze of oil into each cylinder and i got 10, 9, 10,10.

The plugs on the first two were dry and the second two were wet, no signs of burning. Would this indicate poor carb settup?

How do i check the fuel pressure, as per BillyPee's advice?

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Compression seems even and fine. Proper test is really a leak down test but I would be looking at ignition and timing. Carbs may have pumped a bit of fuel in there , hence wet plugs, especially if you held the throttle pedal down, it will inject fuel in. Why wont it start ? It should do with the plugs in with that compression. How decent is the spark?

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