FILFAN Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Nearly done it myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Morcom Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380466351512 I used these and cut them in 2 to get 4 mounts. Even cheaper now Make sure they are very well welded to the cross member. A few years ago I saw a Westfield at Pembrey where the welds failed in an incident. Driver OK but you can imagine what might have happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FILFAN Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 agree Paul. even with my tinkering skills I still got them welded on by an experienced welder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marto303 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I've just looked at the photo's of your car thinkturbo and it all ready has 4 point harnesses fitted, or am I been stupid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.RAD Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Last piccie in thinkturbo's gallery looks like just one mount point on the upper crossbar Not sure about the 4-point rule though as I think you can run in the road going class with just standard car belts. I'll check the blue book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marto303 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.RAD Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I agree. I will fumble through the MSA blue book for the answer, although you should really be going for 4 points anyway - the Herts, Beds and Bucks crew convinced me last night that I should be going to 5 or 6 point to reduce the risk of 'submarining' in the case of the worst happening. But to whet your appetite for next year, feast thine eyes upon this (thanks Marcus!): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Morcom Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I've just looked at the photo's of your car thinkturbo and it all ready has 4 point harnesses fitted, or am I been stupid They look like 4-point harnesses but sharing one mount behind the seat. Scrutineers don't like this but I am not sure the Blue Book states, as a roadgoing car some may say one (3 point) is allowable. It becomes very questionable ground if the harness is a 4 point harness. Bottom line is what is safest in the interest of the driver and it goes in the following sequence... 6 point; 5 point; 4 point; 3 point. Blue Book - Section K 2.1 Seats, Seat Belts and Headrests 2.1. All seat safety belts must be complete units sourced from a recognised manufacturer and fitted in accordance with the manufacturers’ instructions, MSA recommendations or FIA requirements. (See Drawing Nos. 39, 40, 41, 42 and 44.) Where the vehicle manufacturer’s standard safety belts and associated fitments are not utilised, bolts must be of a minimum 7/16in UNF or M12 (grade 8.8). 2.1.1. Three point. One diagonal shoulder strap and one lap strap, with three anchorage points on the chassis/body shell or roll over bar of the vehicle on either side and to the rear of the driver’s seat. 2.1.2. Four point. Two shoulder straps and one lap strap, with four anchorage points on the chassis/body shell or roll over bar of the vehicle, one either side of the driver and two to the rear of the driver’s seat. 2.1.3. Five point. Two shoulder straps, one lap strap and one strap between the legs with five anchorage points on the chassis/body shell or roll over bar of the vehicle, one either side of the driver, two to the rear of the driver’s seat and one between the legs. 2.1.4. Six Point. Two shoulder straps, one lap strap and two straps between the legs, with six anchorage points on the chassis/body shell or roll over bar of the vehicle, one either side of the driver, two to the rear of the driver’s seat and two between the legs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.RAD Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Thanks Paul, beat me too it I think that means you'll either need actual three point harnesses (if they aren't already) but in the interests of safety, would be worth getting the weld on mounts and upgrading to 6/5/4 points. Best of luck either way! Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Everall Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 The Playskool harnesses are 4 or 6 points ( same price I think) and really good value Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodman Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Although I think that 4 point is better I think it is a reasonable argument that in a roadgoing car the standard westfield arrangement would be Ok. Probably worth an EM to MSA stating that it is as factory supplied Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Algar - Competition Secretary Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Can you post a detailed picture of your harness mounts, as unless the car is very old you should have 2 point mounts on the rear top chassis rail. I don't agree with the comments that your 3 point will be OK, where the harness is effectively a 4 point which has the 2 rear straps going to the center. If I remember rightly that has now been forbidden or at least very marginal with the MSA. Interestingly if you have the self-rewinding standard Westfield 3 point, then I think that would be OK as it's diagonal. It is very worthwhile checking this with a local to you MSA Scrutineer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Everall Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Nicks comments echo my understanding that 3 point style harnesses ( not the recoil diagonal) are not acceptable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinkturbo Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 Can you post a detailed picture of your harness mounts, as unless the car is very old you should have 2 point mounts on the rear top chassis rail. I don't agree with the comments that your 3 point will be OK, where the harness is effectively a 4 point which has the 2 rear straps going to the center. If I remember rightly that has now been forbidden or at least very marginal with the MSA. Interestingly if you have the self-rewinding standard Westfield 3 point, then I think that would be OK as it's diagonal. It is very worthwhile checking this with a local to you MSA Scrutineer. They are standard willans and 3 point harnesses, I only have one mounting centrally behind each seat, it's a 1989 sei chassis.Presumably standard on the westfield of that era, it is road going, so is this acceptable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Algar - Competition Secretary Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 They are standard willans and 3 point harnesses, I only have one mounting centrally behind each seat, it's a 1989 sei chassis. Presumably standard on the westfield of that era, it is road going, so is this acceptable? With an 89 chassis that makes sense. I don;t think it will be acceptable unfortunately. The issue already noted of failure of seat belt mounting on a Westfield at Pembrey was circulated around the MSA Scrutineers. So if you want to add extra mounts, which is probably the best thing to do, then make sure you get them welded by a proffesional welder, who gives you a bit of paper to prove his up to date qualifications and also written confirmation that he did the job. I know it seems over the top, but if you turn up and there is any doubt, then you won;t be competing that day and won;t get your entry fee back. It is also worth talking to the MSA Technical team and confirming that they are OK with that. email works well with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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