Mooch Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 in what universe is it ever a good idea to put an Uzi 9mm in the hands of a 9 year old girl? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-28948946 The instructor is dead, she will be traumatised for life. These NRA types are oblivious to how stupid they look to the outside world. This and Rotherham have made me feel physically sick today. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John K Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 in what universe is it ever a good idea to put an Uzi 9mm in the hands of a 9 year old girl?I do feel very sorry for the girl and her family, the 'instructor' was a gigantic fool and got his just deserts, Darwinian evolution for you.From the little mites stance it was obvious she didn't want to hold it and was not holding it right and tight. Mini Uzis like that do kick and anything more than semiA was going to go pear shaped. If he was a real instructor it would have been one in the mag at a time until he was sure she was going to be OK Sorry to trot out the old line, but guns do not kill people, idiots with guns do... Again not suggesting the wee lass is an idiot, she's a victim, the instructor was the fool... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M444TTB Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 I read the story on BBC news earlier having done a double take when I saw the headline. Even if you're pro-gun and ok with children learning to use a hunting rifle or small pistol I still can't fathom why you'd put something like an Uzi in their hands. Even on a range. I know little about guns but even I could anticipate the recoil is going to too much for a 9 year old to handle. I have little sympathy for for the parents or the instructor here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petemac Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 An Uzi depending on the size of barrel and so on, can fire anything from 600 rounds per min to 1700 rpm and has a quite a kick and far too much recoil for a small child to handle ,if you are not used to firing one, as I have many years ago it's a bit of a shock. There was no way she was going to handle that thing on auto, it's all very sad, and yes she will have to deal with this for the rest of her life as will all his family. I hope they learn from this very tragic accident, perhaps the firing range should up the age limit for such things. My thoughts are with all of them. Petemac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyonspride Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Having seen the extended video, i'm not convinced it was the recoil that made her lift the weapon into the instructors face. It looks as though she took her left hand away and started lifting it before the first shot fired. Makes no real difference, but she probably wasn't very happy and wanted to stop, it doesn't take much to panic a child and that guy was right up in her face. Edit - I didn't intend to post the video, just the link!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John K Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Sorry if going over this in detail is a bit gruesome, but the longer vid I think explains what happened and it is down to being in FA. It's not the actual recoil causing the muzzle to climb, 9mm kick nastily but they don't climb enough to cause this accident, what happened is as it was jumping about the girl tried to control it but it walked sideways on her, as she was trying to control it her effort to hold on actually pulled it across. Then she got scared and the shoulder stock would have fell off her shoulder. As it was either a mini or micro Uzi, they have very little to hold onto at the front and the weight of the stock will have probably contributed to the seesaw effect pulling the muzzle up into the danger zone. Or that is my take on it. Not sure what the jerk looking after her was thinking but she should never have been given a fully auto that wasn't on a tripod..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff oakley Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 It is really mad what certain states allow. I have a friend who is in Homeland security he took me to a gun range and a guy was there with a machine gun like Arnie used in Commando. I questioned the legality and was told that as it was fixed to not fire automatically, it was legal but in many other states they were fully legal when fully automatic. Totally insane unless you are going to war, but the availability of weapons, Ammo in Walmart for example, seems to have made people less fearful of the consquences. Why any parent would want to allow a 9 year old to use a machine gun beggars belief, just as much as why any sane instructor would allow it. Sad all around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell O'Neill Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Absolutely nothing wrong with children experiencing and participating in the sport of shooting. The mistake lies with the instructor, (who I believe was an army veteran and should have known his stuff) As a firearms instructor many years ago, it's my opinion he was stood in the wrong place, he should have behind her, to the right (the recoil was bound to allow the gun to sway to the left). Even on fully auto, he shouldn't have had more than a few rounds in the mag. A fatal mistake and a very sad outcome, im afraid. Some people just don't understand, and the very saying 'guns don't kill people, it's the people that do' is very, very true. The whole outrage of kids shouldn't use guns is just crazy, taught well and educated correctly there isn't a problem. A quick google search finds plenty of sad stories about children hurt or killed on karts or motorised vehicles, that doesn't bring the same amount of outrage... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dombanks Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Darrell i sort of agree with you. Plenty of people let their kids play with air weapons that technically don't even need a license. so just buy one and plink away in the garden. but thats fine. i guess. even tho you can easily upgrade one such that the force of the pellet brings it up to the point where it needs to be licensed. shot guns are another example of firearms we let our kids use, just as dangerous in my opinion. incidentally, semi auto rifles are not illegal here (or they wern't last time i looked which was a while back). the rugar 10-22 is readily available under a standard firearms license mags hold 25 .22 bullets and the speed of fire is sort of dependent on how fast you can pull the triger. the uni club i belonged to had access to a "sporting rifle" that was designed for the American military. it broke down to fit into a brief case and had a mag of 100 .22 bullets. again semi auto. that thing took <30s to empty if you could pull the trigger enough and the barrel didn't burn you with the heat. burst of 5-10 rounds could be grouped with good accuracy at 25m im not convinced by the American access to hardware. it seems like you can buy and own pretty much anything that goes bang. for me that is the problem. letting kids fire them, well why not in a proper controlled sensible firing range? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I have no issues at all with sporting shooting, general range stuff, even hunting. I think the banning of hand guns, in the way it was done in this country, was a knee jerk reaction and wrong. But still, I cannot get my head round the idea that at some point an adult, particularly one that is presumed to have more awareness/responsibility than the norm, (as an instructor), considered it a good idea to let a nine year old child "loose" with a fully automatic weapon, in auto mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Colonial Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Well, that's one less poor firearms instructor in the world. The tragedy is what it's done to his family and especially the young girl and her family. However, an Uzi is an entirely inappropriate weapon for a 9-year-old to be handling. Guns with that much kick, especially automatic ones, need to only be operated by experienced users with sufficient strength to do so safely. You wouldn't let a learner driver loose behind the wheel of a F1 car. And what on Earth was her father thinking? He also should have known better. Alternatively, the Uzi should have been on a solid mount with restricted free movement. (I'm neither pro-gun or anti-gun...but I am anti-moron.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooch Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 I have no issues at all with sporting shooting, general range stuff, even hunting. I think the banning of hand guns, in the way it was done in this country, was a knee jerk reaction and wrong. But still, I cannot get my head round the idea that at some point an adult, particularly one that is presumed to have more awareness/responsibility than the norm, (as an instructor), considered it a good idea to let a nine year old child "loose" with a fully automatic weapon, in auto mode. Exactly my view, Dave, on all 3 points, especially the last one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibby Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Idiots .... who films in portrait? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John K Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I shot for fun and competitively (action shoots where you 'run and gun' rather than punching holes in paper) for 25 years until I picked up a neurological disorder that doesn't sit well with loaded guns. So they all went away... When I started the level of training and supervision was off the scale. I was a probationary member for three months shooting a single shot Vostok .22 pistol. And when I say single shot, you had to load a round at a time into the breech. Only after that period could you join the club and move up to a .38 Interesting to hear the Ruger 10/22 get a mention, that was my best rifle discipline - steel plate shoots, and as to how fast you can pull the trigger and hit stuff, it's very... Every action shoot and club enforced the highest safety standards imaginable. And to this day I will not do air soft or paint ball as I can't bring myself to point even a toy gun at a person. I had problems with the shootem ups on games consoles for a while..! I liked shooting and the engineering involved with guns. I hated stupidity and that ridiculous "you can take my gun from my cold dead fingers" routine luckily very few of them in the UK. As for safety record, in 25 years I never knew of a action shooting injury, compare that to motor sports or football etc. It is a great sport with a unfairly poor reputation amongst the folk who don't know it. And incidents like this tragic event doesn't help the sports reputation at all. To wilfully and terribly misquote a great man "Never can the actions of so few spoil the enjoyment of so many..." Off my soapbox now... Sorry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyonspride Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 It makes you wonder why that gun even exists, it's not used by any armed forces, it's not a hunting weapon, it's purely a "we made this because we could" weapon. I've used various shotguns and i've had some experience with the L85A2. But IMO weapons like that are just silly for the sake of being silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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