Paul Morcom Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 One possibility to increase competition within the classes might be to reduce the number of classes? There doesn't seem to be much difference now between classes D & F, so why not amalgamate them? The same might go for classes C & E. We'd then end up with 6 classes, 3 for larger engines and 3 for smaller engines. The division then being novices (A & B) with some restrictions to keep down cost in those classes; road legal (C-E and D-F) with fairly minimal restrictions subject to being road legal and taxed/mot'd; and non-road going (G & H) How would people feel about that? I'd be in particular interested to see what others in classes C & D would say because they are the ones directly affected. I did put this on the table for consideration and SSOT did some analysis of this year's times and very few of the Class F targets were beaten by the Class D drivers - so those with current C/D spec cars would be at a disadvantage to those with E/F spec cars. Clearly this is only relevant to those at the top of the game as most of us mortals don't have the talent to extract the full potential of our cars. I should have said that we all have the talent; just that some of us struggle to find it when it is needed. Others' view on this will be interesting. IMHO the majority are there to have fun, better their PBs and jostle with their closest rivals. A large class is more fun than a small class. I know when I lost my Novice status I headed to F for a number of reasons; the main reason was that it was the biggest class at the time. I didn't expect to be at the top of the class but I hoped to find a few with similar times to have a local battle with. This was exactly the case for the first couple of years and it was great fun! Then the introduction of the new C/D classes spread those that wanted sticky rubber and aeroscreens between the classes subject to their gearbox/engine. That said I have had great fun this year..... biting at the heels of Pete G and at the same time trying to keep ahead of Stu in his 1600cc car (from a different class altogether!) and at the same time trying to get closer to Barry S and John H (again from a different class). As we all know it is a challenge to get the perfect class structure; even if we think we have achieved it something/one comes along and proves that we haven’t. Classes are always going to be a compromise, but regulations shouldn’t stand still and should evolve over time but remain reasonably stable at the same time. Some great ideas are being voiced; I remind you all to get you thoughts in an email to Nick asap as SSOT meet this Sunday to review. Personally I think the WSCC regs should not be changed much for 2014, tweaked here and there to cope with some anomalies. I do think our biggest challenge is to open the door to as many novices as possible and then give them a class structure for them to progress into whilst at the same time maintain a competitive class structure for experts that does not put them at a disadvantage when competing under local event regulations/classes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTR2Turbo Posted November 5, 2013 Author Share Posted November 5, 2013 Personally I think the WSCC regs should not be changed much for 2014, tweaked here and there to cope with some anomalies. I do think our biggest challenge is to open the door to as many novices as possible and then give them a class structure for them to progress into whilst at the same time maintain a competitive class structure for experts that does not put them at a disadvantage when competing under local event regulations/classes. Sums up my thoughts very well. Personally, given the bit in bold, I think better if C/D could, if possible, be further differentiated again from E/F rather than merged. David P.S I also wonder if target times should be like shares and can go up and down over time eg. if class rules are tightened or a venue deteriorates as seems to have happened at Lydden recently due to the dust on the track Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Algar - Competition Secretary Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 P.S I also wonder if target times should be like shares and can go up and down over time eg. if class rules are tightened or a venue deteriorates as seems to have happened at Lydden recently due to the dust on the track It is possible to do this only at the beginning of each year, you could not change in the middle of the year, unless an obvious typo came to light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dommo Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Just wondering out loud, is the engine size difference set at 1800cc? Not that it would affect any entry I make, I'd be dog slow in either class, but it'd be a bit harsh lumping the 1839cc MX5 SDVs with the 2.0 zetecs, duratecs etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Algar - Competition Secretary Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Dommo, It started out at 1700 cc, for the 8-valve crossflow boys, then went to 1800 to allow the Zetec boys in. The rest of the country operates a 1700 policy still, so classes on the day are often different. There are certainly far less 1800 cars out now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M444TTB Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 We'll just add 2% to your time Dom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinH Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Next year will be my 10th season in the Westfield Series and over the time I think I’ve heard all the arguments expressed in this Post at least once, some a lot more than that. The Class structure is not perfect and with the variety of engine/gearbox options I don’t think it ever can be, however, the SSOT have done a pretty good job of defining the Classes and the Regulations. I think It’s a myth to describe Speed Events as cheap motor sport the limited track time for your money and the fact that almost every class on the day struggles with the same problem as our Speed Series, there’s always someone who’s prepared to spend more to gain an advantage. So why did I start with Sprints and Hillclimbs: Simply I didn’t want to get caught up in someone else’s accident. Why did I chose the Speed Series because of the Club and the Camaraderie and it had, and to some extent still has, an excellent structure to introduce the novice to motorsport. Hindsight’s a wonderful gift so would I do it differently if I was starting now, probably not but I might not have stayed with a Westfield for so long. Finally, to counter some of the previous comments of controlled classes , there is no such thing as cheap motor sport but in racing there are plenty of very successful Championships with strict controls on cost, Locost, Mini Seven and Mini Migla, and Formula Jedi to name a few. Oh and I spent some time at Silverstone last weekend for the Walter Hayes Trophy meeting, 100+ Formula Fords all on the same wheels and tyres with the same Kent engine the same carburettor and the same gearbox, as always this led to incredibly close racing. I know my limitations and like others my aim at every event is to set a PB, weather permitting, that’s happened at almost every event I’ve taken part in even when I’ve done nothing to improve the car! I think that tells me something. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Bloke Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 I think that's pretty much covered it in a nutshell Martin, I've never witnessed anything other than great camaraderie, help and support. We have a fantastic championship, with great drivers, a great backup of organisers (SSOT) and probably most of all, a well connected Championship Co-ordinator who spends a huge amount of volunteered time for the drivers benefit. I may have a blinkered view but this is the marque and the Championship for me, (and one of the few cars I fit in) With the huge array of engines, gearboxes, suspension etc etc available there will Never be a class to suit everyone, however, I guarantee you WILL enjoy it whatever the result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid life crisis Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 I did put this on the table for consideration and SSOT did some analysis of this year's times and very few of the Class F targets were beaten by the Class D drivers - so those with current C/D spec cars would be at a disadvantage to those with E/F spec cars. Clearly this is only relevant to those at the top of the game as most of us mortals don't have the talent to extract the full potential of our cars. I should have said that we all have the talent; just that some of us struggle to find it when it is needed. Others' view on this will be interesting. IMHO the majority are there to have fun, better their PBs and jostle with their closest rivals. A large class is more fun than a small class. I know when I lost my Novice status I headed to F for a number of reasons; the main reason was that it was the biggest class at the time. I didn't expect to be at the top of the class but I hoped to find a few with similar times to have a local battle with. This was exactly the case for the first couple of years and it was great fun! Then the introduction of the new C/D classes spread those that wanted sticky rubber and aeroscreens between the classes subject to their gearbox/engine. That said I have had great fun this year..... biting at the heels of Pete G and at the same time trying to keep ahead of Stu in his 1600cc car (from a different class altogether!) and at the same time trying to get closer to Barry S and John H (again from a different class). As we all know it is a challenge to get the perfect class structure; even if we think we have achieved it something/one comes along and proves that we haven’t. Classes are always going to be a compromise, but regulations shouldn’t stand still and should evolve over time but remain reasonably stable at the same time. Some great ideas are being voiced; I remind you all to get you thoughts in an email to Nick asap as SSOT meet this Sunday to review. Personally I think the WSCC regs should not be changed much for 2014, tweaked here and there to cope with some anomalies. I do think our biggest challenge is to open the door to as many novices as possible and then give them a class structure for them to progress into whilst at the same time maintain a competitive class structure for experts that does not put them at a disadvantage when competing under local event regulations/classes. Some great ideas are being voiced; I remind you all to get you thoughts in an email to Nick asap as SSOT meet this Sunday to review. Paul, I'm sure Nick is fully aware of the proposals put forward by members of our club, within this boardroom, and has indeed actively contributed in his capacity of SSOT, Competition Secretary to our online debate and members proposals. I am sure Nick will take all of our proposals to the meeting, without the need to inundate him with emails, just to document what he has already read . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pickmaster Andy Lowe Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 I swapped from MG sprinting to Westfeild this year I only did two MG sprints and they were so helpful I had to think long and hard about the swap But I did and have no regrets at all, loads of help and much more scoop to adjust the car Just one point though -: the guy that won last years Lufield Trophy (MG Series) did it in a car he bought for £500 (truly cheap motor sport) then swapped the good bits off the one he hit the pit wall at Anglesey with oops But they just don't handle or go like westies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete g Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 I just got me engine back from dyno sounds good . I tried to keep the costs down honest http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9mWJ_jpULc 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon besant Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Bloke Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 I will agree with this as this is something we do for fun Personally I enjoy being up against cars that are completely different to mine it makes for an interesting battle my old V8 with 170hp weighing 750 kilos (honest ) struggles against the light weight cars But I have fun As it's been broken for a while and I have not sprinted for two years ( well it will be by the time it's finished) will I be a novice again? NO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon besant Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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