XTR2Turbo Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 It seems that we are now well into the time of year when everyone is starting to think about next years speed series and what they will be running, upgrading etc etc. I've certainly spoken with a few people who are building new cars or upgrading engines / gearboxes etc so exciting times but also potentially quite costly. As an example I have heard figures being quoted of 6 - 7k needing to be spent just on getting an existing engine to be over 200bhp and therefore 'competitive'. Of course the great thing about the speed series is that a large element is the fun and banter not just the competition but that doesn't stop many wanting to have a go at the target times Off the back of the recent NMS rolling road results it confirms that in A and B you can enter as a novice and do well with a low cost car. That is exactly as it should be but as soon as you make the jump to C, D E or F you suddenly are potentially competing against others in higher spec cars where the power seems to be 200 - 220 bhp for the 1800s and perhaps 250 - 290 for the 2 litre classes. It's perhaps become more of an issue with the changes to C & D this year. Take Chris for example who has won the novice A championship this year. Next year if he naturally goes into C he spends a fair chunk of cash or will be competing with a 70 - 80 bhp disadvantage. I know it's not an easy problem to solve but it seems to me that it's important to reflect on what we can do to keep the costs under control and not put 'experts' off or make it too expensive for them all to be competitive. I wonder if there could be a basic - non road legal class or a 'stock' engine class I hope I am not opening a hornets nest !!! Hopefully I'm just floating it as a topic for debate. Interested to hear other peoples views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onliest Smeg David Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 You're opening a hornets nest! Especially with target times and costs. Chris drove excellently with roughly 130bhp in a light car. But how near the target times was he for his class? My driving skills have a long long way to go. I have a lardy 1.8 road car, and it will always be so and cannot afford to make it competitive. I thoroughly enjoyed my SS jaunts, but I am put off doing loads due to competing against thoroughbreds. It can never be a completely level playing field, but that doesn't stop it being a great crack and thoroughly good fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stanton Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Exactly what noted above - with Target Times the analysis is taken over a number of years and a datum produced - where a novice becomes an expert - that datum has often been achieved from times set by experts with a good number of years experience - that said its not impossible as Stuart Hill Championship winner from a couple of seasons back did so to a "budget" that perhaps wasn't as substantial as others. Difficult, but not impossible - although a great many years experience helps if your budget is at the lower end. That's motorsport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianE Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I personally think it would be quite good to have some sort of control class but would involve more work and cost to set this up and decide how it is run , that's my view from a non competitors view . But as Mark has aptly put Thats's motorsport , and is not just our type of motorsport that large figures are being spent regularly to be competitive , my brother runs a Class 10 Autograss car (circa 400hp) and was built at a cost of around 30k two years and they are now about to redesign it again to stay ahead of the competition . I'm thinking of having a go myself next year so will probably change viewpoint somewhat from there ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onliest Smeg David Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I have spoken to a fair few 'potential newbie SS competitors' who are put off by the appearance that their road cars aren't suitable or a lot of money needs to be spent. Having competed this year (very slowly ) I disagree with them. But there's a perception out there that needs addressing. If the club can encourage more 'competing' at the back of the grid, eventually it may result in more competition for championships. I know it's a difficult problem, and that members of the SS committee are well aware and do look at potential solutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Algar - Competition Secretary Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 This is a topic which is raised very often and if there was an easy answer we would have already adopted it !!! As Mark has already pointed out "That's Motorsport" In coming up with a solution some things amongst the many that you need to consider. 1) Westfield's have a very wide variety of engine's (unlike Caterham's) 2) How are you going to pay for policing any restrictions (The championship would have to pay to have engines inspected for example) 3) The main cost appear's to be engine's / sequential gearboxes, so consider above 4) Our top competitors often also compete at national level and win !!, if you restrict them, then we loose those people who are always there for the championship. This year we have 5 people getting FTD's in Westfield's. The SSOT are always happy to consider any suggestions, but please put them in an email to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M444TTB Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 The level my car is at is some way down the list of 'factors that might put me off'. Number one is probably the unavoidable personal safety costs as they really add up. The second is getting the car to events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Algar - Competition Secretary Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 The level my car is at is some way down the list of 'factors that might put me off'. Number one is probably the unavoidable personal safety costs as they really add up. The second is getting the car to events. Both valid points Matt. Helmet, boots, gloves cost approx £ 450 new, but as the suit is the biggest cost have a look for secondhand ones from racecar drivers. As for getting to the event, don;t forget you can always drive the car and we do try and have events reasonably close to most parts of the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexander72 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I will add to this later having picked up the bug this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onliest Smeg David Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Chris won the Novice Champ driving to events in his. I drove mine. I 'borrowed' all my PPE from several other members. I put out a request and was inundated with generous offers. I am going to buy my own helmet next year though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexander72 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 What an excellent thread that I look forward to participating in. As Onliest says Chris Bennett is an example to all of us novices in that he did the hard yards in a car he drove to events in all weathers, he then drove with GREAT SKILL and ability I wish I had to win a deserved class A. I am a complete newbie this year having never been on a track before Sprint School in 2012 when i bought my cross flow car. I was daunted and nervous until sprint school when everyone involved showed me the way and made me/us welcome (i include Debbie in that). This year i have managed to do a few events and scrape an unbelievable 3rd in class for A (road legal) over the year. More by luck than judgement and with a very modest budget and heath robinson approach (i dont have tyre pressure gauge and my tyres are at least 5 years old). BUT I have enjoyed every single minute of every days prep and competition. WE HAVE A UNIQUE GROUP OF INDIVIDUALS within the Speed Series. I know I won't be "competitive" compared to Bennett, Hill, Slingsby, Hillam, Bunn, Hodder and the likes because I have neither the ability or the car but I just like "doing it" and being in a suit and comparing my times. I'd dreamt of racing a car since i was 13 years old. I need to cook dinner but I would say to anyone thinking about it get some good PPE and some tyres and go and have a go - The SS community will welcome you and you will have a blast and make great friends TTFN James 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 My understanding is that there is no "novice" classes anymore as there is a separate novice championship so it doesnt matter what class they enter. This in my opinion makes the thread pretty pointless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTR2Turbo Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 My understanding is that there is no "novice" classes anymore as there is a separate novice championship so it doesnt matter what class they enter. This in my opinion makes the thread pretty pointless ?? I understood that you need to be a novice to enter classes A and B. I actually don't think the issue of cost is so great for novices. It's not what I had in mind with the thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexander72 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Fastest Novice was awarded at most events this year John regardless of class. and we have a novice table in the SS results table Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Exactly. Novices dont have to enter classes A or B. Stu Hill won the championship from A just 2 seasons ago and he is no / was novice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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