Mark Stanton Posted May 20, 2003 Posted May 20, 2003 Witter, Indespension, Towsure and the like do sell and fit lowering and raising plates - obviously they must be the appoved product and not some scrap steel with a couple of holes drilled in them I'd be more inclined to fit a plate rather than shim an axle Don't know why - just my humble opinion feels the better way Quote
Blatman Posted May 20, 2003 Posted May 20, 2003 p.s. Dont spose you spoke to BJ did you Blatman? Not yet Life/work/sprint car prep are getting in the way. It's on my list to do tomorrow morning. I will post as soon as I have an answer. Quote
Al Yupright Posted May 20, 2003 Author Posted May 20, 2003 Can I fit a 'drop plate' to an EC Type Approved towbar? Only if the towbar has been submitted and tested for EC Type Approval using a 'drop plate'. Some Witter towbars for 4WD off road vehicles have been tested in this way, e.g. Range Rover, Land Rover Discovery and Defender, the new Mitsubishi Shogun and Mercedes M Class. Your local Witter specialist will be pleased to advise you. I'll give em a ring. But sounds to me like its 4*4s only. (ta Blatman! Quote
steppenwolf Posted May 21, 2003 Posted May 21, 2003 (Dont be ashamed if its from a secret life of caravanning. I tend to find its the ones that are proud of caravanning that you have to worry about (eh Steppenwolf).) Be very worried .......... Quote
Blatman Posted May 21, 2003 Posted May 21, 2003 The man from Brian James, he say drop plate. Now I've got to check if my newly fitted tow bar is type approved for use with a drop plate.......... You learn something new every day....... Quote
Al Yupright Posted May 21, 2003 Author Posted May 21, 2003 Interesting... I just rung Witter, and they said drop-plates are not allowed! Quote
steppenwolf Posted May 21, 2003 Posted May 21, 2003 In all my years of towing ( 34!! ) I have only ever had a mis-match between one car and trailer and that was a Datsun 160 Bluebird and a Sprite Musketeer Caravan and this was safely and properly resolved by the use of a drop plate supplied by Witter. Perceived wisdom ( see 'The Ongoing Story of Simple Caravanning Folk' by J. R. Steppenwolf - shortly to be released in hard back ) says that the 'ideal' tow ball height is about 15" ( 38mm ) and the trailer should be either absolutely level or slightly nose down ( NEVER nose up ) when correctly loaded. The nose weight recommended by the car manufacturer should be adhered to and various nose weight gauges are available to confirm that this is so. Although a proper drop plate is the correct method of resolving a towbar/drawbar height mis-match, if the underlying problem is that the noseweight is so high that the suspension bottoms out then this does not resolve the problem and some form of uprating the rear suspension is required. I have just gone through the process of upgrading my caravan to a bigger and heavier one and by ensuring that the nose weight was correct for the car by sensible packing of my beer for last weekend, I found that although the 'van weighs 98% of the car's weight fully laden, it towed absolutely perfectly complete with strong cross winds on the M27, with the correct slightly nose down attitude of the 'van and a well matched 75Kg nose weight. The only problem encountered on the journey was the number of SLOW CARS in the middle lane of the motorway that we were unable to overtake as we are not legally allowed to use the outside lane on a motorway Quote
steppenwolf Posted May 21, 2003 Posted May 21, 2003 I just rung Witter, and they said drop-plates are not allowed! Hmmmm ...... new rule change then!! Mind you, the Datsun Bluebird must have been 26 years ago!!!! Did they say why they are not allowed now? Quote
Al Yupright Posted May 21, 2003 Author Posted May 21, 2003 Stepps, I've got a spring/coil/piston type nose weight gauge, and the nose weight is 50kgs, which I thought was quite ok. Drop-plates used to be fair game, but all cars after 1998 or so have to have EC type approved tow-bars, which quite often are not approved with a drop-plate in place, and by fitting one I could be invalidating my insurance. Arent tow-ball height and nose weight separate things though? I dont think it's the 50kgs that is causing my A*** end droop, I think its the fact that at normal rideheight, the front axle is having weight removed from it. So the car is forced downwards until the front axle does take the weight. If I shim the front axle, I think I can get the same noseweight, just with the towhitch higher up. A bit tricky to explain! Cheers, Al. Quote
Al Yupright Posted May 21, 2003 Author Posted May 21, 2003 160 Bluebird and a Sprite Musketeer Caravan That makes it look like you're more ashamed of a "Sprite Musketeer" than you are of a Datsun, and to me, that is really funny! Quote
steppenwolf Posted May 21, 2003 Posted May 21, 2003 Arent tow-ball height and nose weight separate things though? Most definitely, you should not 'correct' one with the other which is why I mention both in the post above! Both nose weight AND level should be correct for a safe and comfortable tow. 50 Kg does not sound too bad a weight but what does the specification for your car say the maximum trailer nose weight should be? It seems strange that the rear suspension of the car is not coping well with that weight unless your particular car has a lower max noseweight requirement. As a matter of interest, the 15" tow ball height I mention in my earler post is WITH the trailer attached and correctly loaded ( i.e. with a nose weight not exceeding the car manufacturer's specification ). Quote
steppenwolf Posted May 21, 2003 Posted May 21, 2003 That makes it look like you're more ashamed of a "Sprite Musketeer" than you are of a Datsun, and to me, that is really funny! Have you ever driven a Datsun Bluebird? I should have been more careful where I placed the smiley There are many things that I have done in the past that I am ashamed of but caravanning is not one of them Quote
Al Yupright Posted May 21, 2003 Author Posted May 21, 2003 As a matter of interest, the 15" tow ball height I mention in my earler post is WITH the trailer attached and correctly loaded ( i.e. with a nose weight not exceeding the car manufacturer's specification ). Indeed, but the ball height of my trailer is about 11inches. With the bed level. Hence I think this is pushing the car down to this level. If you try and lift it above this level (as the cars rear suspension is trying to do) then the nose weight will soar, because you're reducing the weight on the front axle. The type of noseweight gauge I've got is a bit pants really, because it doesnt impose the height of the hitch to be at that of the tow-bar. I think I need to get one of the ones you clip onto the towbar first. Hopefully you see what I mean. The trailer wants to be at 11inches (so that the weight is equal on the tow axles). The car wants to be at 15inches. The trailer wins, and the car sinks on its suspension. I'm pretty sure a drop-plate would fix it... Mr Witter, he say no. So think I'll try the shimming the axle thing. But then my trailer will be nose up (although the weight on the axles will be equal). Cheers, Al. Quote
steppenwolf Posted May 21, 2003 Posted May 21, 2003 I'm pretty sure a drop-plate would fix it... Mr Witter, he say no. So think I'll try the shimming the axle thing. But then my trailer will be nose up (although the weight on the axles will be equal). Why will the nose be up if you shim both axles? Surely it will raise the whole trailer by the same amount so the net result will be that it is raised to the correct height for the tow bar? Maybe I have missed something in an earlier post but have you considered shimming the draw bar instead? The draw bar and hand brake are bolted onto the 'A' frame of the trailer so they could be spaced up with a suitable steel structure such that the trailer would remain level ( and at its present height ). Naturally, you would probably have to change the front brake bar bracket to allow for the increased angle caused by the uplift but that is no big deal. Again, reaching back into the dim past, my father had a height extension mounting on the draw bar of one of his earlier caravans for just this purpose. Perhaps Brian James can assist because you cannot be alone in having this problem surely? By the way, has anyone seen my milk churn? Quote
Al Yupright Posted May 21, 2003 Author Posted May 21, 2003 I'd only want to shim the front axle, cos... I want to raise the nose by say 2inches. The axles are spaced by 80cm. And it is 350cm from the rear axle to the towball. So by putting a 10mm spacer under the front axle, it will raise the tow-hitch by 50mm. If I were to put a shim under both axles, it would have to be a 50mm shim. This'd make it harder to load the car onto the trailer, and might make it more sensitive to cross winds. Raising the drawbar/hitch unit was an option I considered, but again I'd have to fit a 2inch thick spacer. Fitting a 10mm spacer to one axle seems much more subtle! Is running "nose up" a problem? Does it mean that when you slam the anchors on the trailer will try to lift the car, or something equally drastic? Cheers, Al. (p.s. Saw a landrover with the rear wheels 2foot high in the air last friday. The caravan was on its side, but still hitched to the Landrover) Quote
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