Al Yupright Posted May 17, 2003 Posted May 17, 2003 Bit of a question for the serious towers! (Dont be ashamed if its from a secret life of caravanning. I tend to find its the ones that are proud of caravanning that you have to worry about (eh Steppenwolf).) I tow a twin-axled car trailer behind a Pug 306 hatchback. Its a lightweight trailer (500kgs) with the axles set fairly far back. The problem is that when hitched up, the rear of the pug is practically on the bumpstops, which doesnt look/seem quite right. Moving the Westy backwards and forwards doesnt seem to make much difference, but I have it positionned to give a nose weight of 50kgs. I've been out and taken some measurements. The towball height of the Pug (without the trailer on) is 41cm from the ground. With the trailer freestanding (ie not hitched to the car), if I wind the jockeywheel up so that the trailer is is in its natural position supported by the two axles only, then the tow hitch of the trailer is 26cm from the ground. IE 15cm below where the car's towball is. Moving the Westy backwards will lift this upto about 28cm. So is this a problem, and are any of these valid solutions? A: Fit spacers to the front axle mountings, causing the nose to lift. (a fairly big job, especially if it could screw the tracking) B: Fit one of these towball drop plates to the pug. Is this what these are for? Would it be putting the jockeywheel at greater risk though? (closer to the ground). C: Get some of these helper springs for the pug. (big job again). D: Do nothing. It tows fine, just looks a little strange and wheelspins away from damp junctions if trying to make a swift getaway. Cheers, Al. Quote
tonym Posted May 17, 2003 Posted May 17, 2003 Find a level surface and set the trailer deck level ie. same height front and rear. Measure the height of the ball coupling and set the ball on the car to the same height with a drop plate if needed. The trailer will now the carry its load evenly on both axels. You can also fit spring helpers which are plastic spacers that you screw into the coils -an easy job but no good if you have torsion bar suspension. They are made by a firm called Gunson I believe. Hope this helps Quote
Blatman Posted May 17, 2003 Posted May 17, 2003 Not really related, but I found The National Trailer and Towing Association......They may have some info in their FAQ section...... Quote
Al Yupright Posted May 18, 2003 Author Posted May 18, 2003 Tony, I just did as you suggest, using a spirit level. Jockey wheel up, and moved the car around till the bed was level. This lead to the top of the imaginary towball position (within the coupling) to be 35cm from the floor. The top of the towball on the tow-car is 45cm from the floor. So this does tend to indicate a drop plate might help. Although that site that Blatman mentionned, and another site or two I've seen, say that drop plates can only be used if the tow-bar has been type approved with one in place. Shame the interactive reversing demo doesnt work on that site Blatman, was hoping I could learn something!! Cheers, Al. Quote
Mark Stanton Posted May 18, 2003 Posted May 18, 2003 You need to check things with your trailer manufacturer - as regards to the height required for your towball My optimum towball height is 16.5 inches for my PRG trailer - the guys who fitted the towbars to car and mobile tent have set the towball at the required height If you're doing it yourself, spacers and raising / lowering plates can all be obtained from Tow Sure Quote
Blatman Posted May 18, 2003 Posted May 18, 2003 Hadn't occured to me to raise the tow hitch on the trailer......I'll be calling Brian James in the morning..... My new tow car does exactly what Al's does. Towed alright, so I didn't worry too much, but if there's a fix, I'm there........ Quote
Blatman Posted May 18, 2003 Posted May 18, 2003 Shame the interactive reversing demo doesnt work on that site Blatman, was hoping I could learn something!! Best tip I ever got for reversing the trailer was this: Steer from the bottom of the steering wheel (The six o'clock position). If you want the trailer to go to the left, steer the bottom of the wheel to the left. Try it...... Quote
Al Yupright Posted May 18, 2003 Author Posted May 18, 2003 Hadn't occured to me to raise the tow hitch on the trailer......I'll be calling Brian James in the morning..... My new tow car does exactly what Al's does. Towed alright, so I didn't worry too much, but if there's a fix, I'm there........ Let us know what they say! Be interesting to hear. I figured rather than putting a 2inch thick spacer under the coupling, it'd be better to put a 5mm spacer under the front axle. But I thought perhaps there might be a good reason not to do this, that'd never occurred to me. Cheers, Al. Quote
N_J Posted May 18, 2003 Posted May 18, 2003 OK so while on the subject of towing .. seems to suffer a lot of snake today. Car is in the same position as usual and loaded the same. The only thing I can put it down to is the winds today (no not baked beans Blatman!. Any suggestions please.. Quote
S8ight Posted May 18, 2003 Posted May 18, 2003 might sound a daft one, but have you tried putting the car on the trailer the other way round ? unless its a bike engined one in which case dont suppose it would make that much difference. Quote
Al Yupright Posted May 18, 2003 Author Posted May 18, 2003 might sound a daft one, but have you tried putting the car on the trailer the other way round ? Me? Nah. Because: A: With the single speed electric reverse it'd be a bit hard! B: The Westy is actually heavier at the rear than at the front (yep, its a BEC). C: I figured towing it that way would act as a huge air brake, with all the air getting trapped in the Westy footwells. N_J, yeah, it'd be the wind. Had a few buttock clenches on the A55 across north wales, but mine has never really snaked badly. Theres some stuff on that site Blatman just mentionned about snaking. Cheers, Al. Quote
studbuckle Posted May 18, 2003 Posted May 18, 2003 I dont know if it's worth noting but the the pug 306 is renowned for it's sag on the rear suspension. It's down to the geometry. Just see how it performs compared other hatches whe you do a hill start. Massive rear suspension movement. Quote
N_J Posted May 18, 2003 Posted May 18, 2003 Afriend had a 306 and a bike rack on the back tow bar has the same effect .. it grounds and bounces over all the bumps. Quote
Terry Everall Posted May 19, 2003 Posted May 19, 2003 I have towed just about every sort of trailer with many different cars and IMO you must (a) fit a drop plate behind your tow ball (use longer bolts if needed . The height of tow ball and hitch should be almos the same on the level. Therefore make sure you get correct depth drop plate or one with different holes in it to adjust the height. (b) always position car to give approx 50 kgs nose weight on the tow ball. This set up will minimise snaking and should help reducie the problem of "A*** end "droop !! Terry Quote
Al Yupright Posted May 20, 2003 Author Posted May 20, 2003 I've toyed with the idea of fitting a drop-plate, but I dont think its legal, unless the tow-bar was type-approved with one fitted. Might give Witter a ring... But I've just done some measuring up, and if I fit a 1cm shim under the front axle mounts, it will raise the tow hitch by 2inches. Is there any reason why this is not the same as fitting a drop plate? Any reason why this is a bad idea? Cheers, Al. p.s. Dont spose you spoke to BJ did you Blatman? Quote
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