I'm going to put my big foot in my big mouth - again!

[Norman Verona]

Dave, agrred, you build your car, have huge pride in the result. It's a performance sports car. Of course you can make it go faster. But to upgrade and make it slower just because what you've done "looks nice" isn't, in my opinion what it's all about.

 

At least Dom understands what I'm saying.

[Captain Colonial]

I understand - and I disagree.  But as has been said, people buy and own their cars for different reasons.

 

A classic one to me is when someone purchases smaller headlights solely in order to reduce air resistance and go faster, and finds the new headlights to be less effective at lighting the road than the old ones - is that a performance improvement if you can't go as fast in the dark as you used to?  Not an easy, simple, straightforward question you're asking, Norman.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

I under stand what you're saying Norman, I just think you're wrong!

 

Pas many others have said too, it's just a different set of compromises. One in favour of aesthetics is no more or less valid than one that chooses to maintain character and pedigree.

 

You'd have no hesitation compromising looks (within reason) for performance, why should the opposite approach be any less valid?

[Norman Verona]

I don't mind at all if you disagree. However, take Scott's example above. I haven't suggested you upgrade and detract from safety. I won't say it all again but if you think it's OK to upgrade a 7 type car and reduce performance because you think this option looks better then I'm happy. 

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

In a similar vein, last winter I fitted a heater to go with the screen and hood I'd already fitted.

 

in conjunction with the R1R tyres (which give summer grip in winter conditions), I can blat hard over winter in just a regular light jacket rather than the heavy sweaters and coats I used to need, and which I used to find really restrictive.

 

Now if you don't use the car over winter, this would be of no benefit, and the extra weight would be a bad thing!

 

Likewise, the windscreen, those in the club that know me were relatively shocked when I fitted it; I'd been a hard core aeroscreener since the car was built. I've done the Peak district and Wales in Winter, wrapped up like the Michelin man. I've done weekends away with the car, with other WF driving mates. And much as I love the aeroscreen freedom, it's limitations grew to be a pain. (Oh how I envy the ease of swapping the Caterham has!). Those same people that know me well, also know that Ive never used the car more, or loved the experience as  much as I have in its new windscreened  form.

 

And believe me, that was an absolutely massive performance hit at the top end. (I still miss that utterly ballistic rush, but the fact that I'm going to have to increase my yearly milage allowance on the insurance for the first time in eight years speaks volumes for how well the compromise works for me.

[Norman Verona]

Dave, but that's for comfort not cosmetics.

 

Would you fit a known restricted silencer because you liked the look of it knowing it would strangle the performance at the middle and top end?

 

I didn't go for a straight cut box because of the noise. I only drive on the road now. I haven't fitted injectors and 3D ignition because the increase in out-and-out performance is debatable (lets not start debating that) and the cost. Roger King said it wouldn't increase performance so I didn't spend any more money. It will make the car nicer to drive and it will be more tractable but with a twin plate clutch I'm hardly bothered about "easier to drive"

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

No the windscreen wasn't done for comfort. Technically, it's not even for me! I spent a lot of time and money changing the car from Aeroscreened for the simple fact that the group of mates I tend to blat with are all on windscreens, and while no one said, (or would say) anything, I know it was a pain for them constantly waiting for me.

 

If I build another car, or re-body this one at some stage, I will quite possibly go even further. I fancy, purely for the looks, the traditional clamshell wings look. Not only will this be a purely cosmetic thing, that will probably add more drag, but I will have to loose the bonnet exit manifold and go for something more restrictive. I will also have to loose the wide track front suspension.

 

And that will mean both engine and handling performance reductions for the sake of something purely decorative!

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Just as a final point, the change to a windscreen, though done for the reasons explained above, really opened my eyes to alternative points of view, in terms of the nature of these cars.

 

In an ideal world, I'd need at least three! As no one car would ever be everything I'd want.

 

And yes, at least one of those would be an un compromised stripped to basics machine.

[martyblues]

Membership Secretary, on 08 Nov 2012 - 8:31 PM, said:

A new member bought the car, seems like a jolly nice man as well, who will have much better luck than the previous owner as the nut behind the wheel has been removed.

That's nice and friendly, would you say that to a face in the pub?

[martyblues]

I refer the newly anointed Right Honourable Member to my previous reply in Post #26:

My introduction to the "Friendly club"

[Captain Colonial]

I was referring to an EX-member who had left the club and the boardroom months earlier after having unrealistic expectations after coming from a bike, throwing his toys out of the pram publicly when he drove his car like a lunatic, broke several engines, refused to take advice and then stormed off, revoking his membership.  Does that sound rational?

 

He and that car were never a good match, but he never saw that post.  However, I would say it to his face because it was true.  And it was said with obvious humour.

 

I would not, however, use the "style" and expletives towards anyone as you used earlier in this thread.

[M444TTB]

I think I get where you're coming from Norman. I'm afraid I've not read the other pages of this as my phone battery is dying! For example I wouldn't swap some perfectly good black fuel hose for some blue fuel hose because it looks good despite other members saying it will fall apart in 6 months.

[martyblues]

expletives

That implies more than one 

 

****  CR*P  isn't that an awful word

 

I'm sure all Caterham owners will be devastated that their cars can be described as such. tut tut slap my wrist 

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

In certain ways Martin, you're right. (I'm not referring to the Memb Sec's post here, more that his last post reminded me of events).

 

Towards the end, much was said to and around, that particular member, (ex), that in a better world, probably shouldn't have been, mea culp,a I'm sure I may have said similar myself. In that case though it was born out of the frustration of those that had tried to help, and failed.

 

The reasons don't matter, we failed that member. It's something, along with a number of other issues that as a club, we've tried to learn from and change, over.

 

But what wasn't acceptable then, and isn't now is profanity, (implied or otherwise), or bullying. Now such things may be water off a ducks back to Norman, but I can tell you they do not go unnoticed by other members and in other forums.

 

Triggering the bad language filter is not a badge of honour. (Nor bypassing it by adding asterixes oneself, as many do)

 

The irony isn't lost on me either, I don't actually agree with Norman's proposition , but find myself (broadly) defending his right to say it!

[Norman Verona]

Marty, I don't know what reason you have to dislike Caterham owners who you've never met. I get on with all Westfield, Robin Hood and all the other 7 type owners I haven't met. I may not like another member after I've met and spent some time with him, but that hasn't happened yet. I have met several members now and have no problems, get on well with them, and I hope them with me.

 

I NEVER say I don't like someone before I've actually met them. I may call someone on the TV an idiot for what they say (mainly politicians) but I will not say I dislike them as I haven't spent time with them to make that judgement.

 

Finally, I wasn't "bellyaching" I was making a point. You can disagree and many have, some have agreed. However I fail to understand your attitude due to the car I own.