bailiffs have been around

[SteveD]

The only thing (and I mean this with the best intention and good will) that will weaken your case; why hadn't you noticed you weren't paying business rates? And made appropriate enquiries.

And contrary to a Norms advice, you wouldn't stand a hope in hell in raising a successful county court judgement. You would firstly have to prove the fine was illegitimate and for that you'd need a damn good lawyer. Barrack room lawyers won't cut it on this one - with due respect.

Pay it and seek recompense by writing to them is my suggestion.

i knew i had to pay the buisness rates but is it not up to them to ask for them not for me to chase them , i have not had a single letter off them or a demand or anything sinse march after i sent them the forms , first thing i know is i have a bailiff on my door step

[Captain Colonial]

Time to call in the diplofat Steve - cue picture from MemSec 

 

You rang?

 

[SteveD]

Ok. Think laterally and you can get some free publicity to boot. Get your full story thought out, and how start up business is been threatened and how it is contrary to what the council and government are supposed to be doing. Get all the years of experience and how you and your family have take a big leap to start a new business. All of course is true but put the story together.

 

Then contact the local paper, ask if there interested in your story - perhaps some investigating to see how many start up business have been affected. There desperate for stuff to fill the pages, so if you give them a good local story it makes their job easy. If you can get an 'appalled friend' to do this all the better. It also helps with our English modesty about such matters.

 

We did something similar last year and go front page of the local news, radio and bit on the telly. (in our case it was travellers vandalising the outside offices)

cheers ade i contacted the local paper an hour ago

[tightscot]

i knew i had to pay the buisness rates but is it not up to them to ask for them not for me to chase them , i have not had a single letter off them or a demand or anything sinse march after i sent them the forms , first thing i know is i have a bailiff on my door step

I wasn't suggesting anything deliberately wrong on your part, on my limited time on the forum it's obvious you are well respected. I was just pointing out the final legal responsibility, which is exactly what they will do when they defend their actions. - and that is business rates are payable and it is your responsibility to pay them, hard though that may be to accept. Hd you a raft of calls, emails, letters asking them why they hadn't sent your rates assessment, you might have a stronger case. Not saying this is the morally right approach but it is the most likely. It's a bit like personal tax, just because HMRC don't send you a tax return doesn't exempt you from paying tax.

No intention to paint you as the wrong 'un, just trying to be helpful and aid you get your money.

[SteveD]

understand but i cant think of everything ,i work very long hours and flat out 90% of the time there is only so much i can remember to do and chase , i just thank god that the bailiff was understanding and seemed to feel for me a little bit after i seemed shocked and showed him the letter from the council from march which was in a folder labled cheshire east council ,which he watched me pull out of my desk draw file so it was proof to him i knew nothing about it i think

[SootySport]

I feel you need to put in a personal appearance at The local council tax office and sort it out once and for all. Much better for them to see you  in person and I assume you'll pay the tax at the same time.  Also a good opportunity to settle your correct address and postcode otherwise it's going to happen again next year.

[SteveD]

I feel you need to put in a personal appearance at The local council tax office and sort it out once and for all. Much better for them to see you  in person and I assume you'll pay the tax at the same time.  Also a good opportunity to settle your correct address and postcode otherwise it's going to happen again next year.

yup no problem with paying what i owe at all ,but i shouldnt have to pay an extra few hunderd pounds for there incompetence thats whats boiling my p***

i dont even think i can pay the council now i have to pay the bailiffs ,lets see what joys they bring in the morning

[pistonbroke]

Its Nantwich !  the posties are all yokels , no one can find it 

[Terryathome]

If you only pay the business rates and not the bailiffs fees the debt will be outstanding for the remainder of the fees, this is the way that the bailiffs will see it and no other way.

 

The council IMHO will not be interested in the debt as it has been passed onto the bailiffs. If you only intend to pay the business rates only and contend the bailiffs fees then you must inform the council that you are in "dispute" over the costs. This will I hope at this late stage stop the bailiffs from pursuing you further until the dispute is settled. If you do dispute the costs and the bailiffs turn up you must say to them that you are in dispute with the plaintiff and that they have no right to pursue the debt. Police might come in handy from removing them from your garage if they start mooching about as they are now acting illegally.

 

Remember that the bailiffs work to a time scale and every time they call it puts up the fees so the dispute thing is quite important as it will stop the fees from being increased.

 

If it was me pay the whole bill and try and get hold of the so called letters that you did not receive so proving that they used the wrong address. Might be a slim chance of getting your bailiffs fees back but the council could argue that you knew that you had to pay something so why didn't you contact us. Bit 50/50 to me.

 

Terry

[Norman Verona]

Mark (Smokey Mow), you are, of course, correct. I have made a sweeping generalisation which is wrong on my behalf.

 

I'm sure you are extremely efficient in your job as, I would expect, is your department. I'll take your word that the LA you work for is equally efficient.

 

I will, immediately I've completed this apology, remove the offending comment and repost below.

 

Once again, please accept my apology for making a sweeping generalisation. My only defence is that it was posted in haste as I was leaving to go out for the evening.

[Norman Verona]

Tightscot.

 

All that Steve needs do is appeal to the court on the grounds of bad service. The copies of the plaint and the warrant will show the incorrect address and the appeal will be upheld. 

 

There seems to be a misunderstanding of the relationships. This is no longer a matter for the council. The court has imposed the extra charges not the council. The baliffs will not be at all interested that you are in dispute with the council.

 

The "catch 22" is that to lodge an appeal in the court will probably take longer than the 48 hours before the bailiffs return. To get an appeal entered and acknowledged (in writing), which is the only document which the bailiff will act upon,  before their return would mean Steve going to the court to process. In this case he may as well pay the costs as to close up shop, go to the court, complete the paperwork, get acknowledgment and return to work will probably cost more than paying the costs.

 

Steve has said he has paid the rates (to the bailiffs). The bailiffs are aware the address is wrong, which is probably why they left without full payment.

 

Steve's "dispute" is now with the court which has issued a summons and processed a warrant with an incorrect address,

 

I have suggested he pays and claims it back from the council wholly due to the time factor.

 

The newspaper idea is excellent. However it will not make the court fees go away. The bailiffs will be back tomorrow and unless Steve can show them reason to desist they will exercise  the warrant. It's not enough for Steve to say he has entered an appeal, told the papers or is in dispute with the council They will want documentary proof of a reason to desist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not a solicitor or a barrister. However I have issued circa 100 summons, about 60 warrants, attended over 40 hearings and conducted a CC trial where the judge complimented me on my conduct. I had, and understood, a Green Book. Whilst the online services have changed the way documents are raised and the titles of the judges are different, the fundamental law is the same.

[SteveD]

lets see what happens today ,i cant contact the council department until after 1pm as they do not open until 1pm  goodness me , the questions i need answering is how has it got to this stage without me knowing a thing about it ,thats the annoying thing and like scott said why no phone call from them before this , its just plain bulls*** and boils down to incompetence on there behalf ,lets also hope the gaurdian go with the story today

[Norman Verona]

Just to give some examples of my dealings with LA's here are some of the matters that I've dealt with.

 

Westminster City Council who claimed that the results of  a poorly maintained external electric sign which blew the blue phase of a 3 phase supply and stopped two large sump pumps from clearing heavy rainwater from an underground car par added to which the council workman had removed the battery on the standby generator to return it to the depot over the weekend for charging, were an act of god. After nine months of letter writing I issued a summons and got paid, in full, within 48 hours.

 

Tower Hamlets council who decided to issue invoices for commercial rubbish removal to a different address to that of the rates. 

 

The correct address was:

 

Osborn Garages Ltd

100 Whitechapel Road,

London

E1 1JA

 

the invoice went to:

 

The Occupier,

10 Whitechapel Road

London

E10 1JA

 

 

 

Sheffield city council who when asked to get a drain in the road cleaned with a gully cleaner sent two men in suits and a clipboard to inspect it. This was followed up by two men in overalls who also inspected the drain (actually it was a soakaway). This was followed up with a telephone call informing me that I should put my request in writing as if the drain was on my property I would have to make my own arrangements. Eventually two men in a gully cleaner arrived and cleared the sediment from the drain.

 

 

Sheffield City Council who issued a lease of easement to a leaseholder worded as if was a freeholder. This incurred me in considerable additional legal fees and was only put correct after the vendor of the property contacted his friend, the leader of the council to get it sorted. So, after 3 months of my solicitor badgering them to correct their error, the new lease was hand delivered the morning following the call to the leader.

 

 

 

Epping Forest council who, for seven years, raised an inflated charge for rates and credited the overcharge every year but never corrected the rateable value. 

 

I could go on with a few more but that's enough for now.

[Norman Verona]

Steve the reason you knew nothing about this is because the council have the wrong address for your business premises and have used this address to issue the summons and then the warrant.

 

The court are in error due to bad service. 

 

However the court weren't to know as you hadn't responded to the summons. They weren't to know they've be given the wrong address.

 

 

Your choice is to got the court today and issue an appeal and get an acknowledgment which you can show the bailiff tomorrow. The grounds for your appeal is "bad service" and you will need a utility bill with the correct address to prove the wrong address has been used. I would guess this will cost you, in lost production, more than the court fees.

 

 

In my experience the council will do nothing as it's now in the hands of the court.

[Norman Verona]

Scott, So the expenses are now called allowances.

 

Do the Councillors pay tax on these allowances? Isn't that the difference between pay and expenses or allowances?

 

I've no idea whet the answer is.