Dambusters

[Norman Verona]

But, another Bernie (can we just call you Bernie now?) that's the point. If at some time in the future the German economy wasn't so good and a leader rose to the top who thought they had been slighted it could all happen again. But only if the EU isn't in existence.

 

Unlikely?

 

Well so was two major wars only 25 years apart. The second after the most deadly struggle ever known to mankind.

 

Some historians will tell you the war lasted from 1870 (start of the Franco-Prussian war) to 1989 (fall of the Berlin wall and communism). They may well be correct.

[Norman Verona]

Marty, there were Polish, Free French*, Czechs, as well as brigades from all the occupied countries. No Israelis as such, Israel wasn't created until 1949.There was a Jewish Brigade though.

 

There is a strong body of opinion that had the US entered the war after November 1940 but before Pearl harbour on 7th December 1941 the war would have been shortened by as much as 2 years and millions would not have died. Many feel that we stood alone defending the US from May 1940 to December 1941. Yes, Roosevelt gave every assistance short of declaring war on Germany. Had the US done so, Hitler almost certainly would not have attacked Russia and the D Day landing would have taken place in 1942. It is also thought that Russia would have joined in on the Allied side if this had been the case. 

 

Of course impossible to say "what if"

 

 

 

*The reason the French, led by De Gaulle were called "Free" was to differentiate them from Vichy France, the French government mainly led by Petain and based in Vichy. They not only didn't assist the allies but almost declared war on Britain. They stepped back from that brink due to a stern warning from Roosevelt. 

[martyblues]

Norman the Israelites are mentioned in the bible, Old Testament , I have a suspicion that was written a little before 1949

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

I may be wrong, but Israelites were a tribe, not a sovereign nation as were Samaritans, et al. Israel was created as a nation in the immediate post war period to be a home for the Jews. 

 

Norman; wasn't it 1948? I seem to recall it being 1988 when I was there in mid-May of that year and they were celebrating the fortieth anniversary of the creation of the country. Fabulous atmosphere in Tel Aviv with not trouble among the huge crowds at all - nobody was drunk, nor even squiffy.

[martyblues]

My reason for questioning this, is that in Battle of Britain aircrew losses, some list the 1pilot in question as being Israeli, and in another he is listed as Palestinian .

.

I believe the new state was created in 1948, as stated above, but the term Israeli has been around for a long time, a translation from Hebrew referring to lands of the area. The promised land Holy land etc.

[Norman Verona]

I've seen reference to a brigade of Palestinian Jews (led by Moshe Dyan who lost an eye in the battle) being used to take over Syria and the Lebanon before the Germans could get there,

 

There was a Jewish  Flight in the RAF.

 

I said Isreal was founded in 1949 but as you say it was 1948. I was not yet 2 so don't remember it that well.

[SootySport]

Norman, you can call me what you like, most people say "Hey you" or "Oi, you old geezer"

My theory for the future is, there will be no more World Wars, yes we still have minor conflicts as we have in Afghanistan and other undeveloped states.

What we have to worry about is natural disasters, climate change, reversing the Earths polarity, big lumps of heavenly bodies hitting the Earth.  Maybe I've been watching too many Sci Fi disaster films but the scientists never discount such events can be disastrous for Humans and and a continued existence on this planet.

[Norman Verona]

Oi, you old geezer, Bernie, I hope you're right but I feel we have the cocktail over the next 30 years to have another global war. The very reason the atomic bombs have stopped wars is the very reason they will not stop them in the future. We now realise that to use one will be mutual destruction, you may win but you'll be destroyed. Why the next 30 years? Because the US is in decline, China is rising. There may well come a time when this economic war will turn into a military war.

 

The scientists keep on about all these things because they get grant money to investigate them.

[jeff oakley]

I hope your are wrong Norm, but mans capacity to wage war is a given. It is also a huge business that never stand still and unfortunately the best way to sell arms is to have a bogey man, to prepare for or a war to demonstrate their effictiveness during.

 

I can see war unless we sort out energy needs. Russia has already shown it is willing to restrict supply if they don't get there own way, when they restricted supply to Ukraine. As most of the fossile fuels are now in despot countries this will be a trigger in my view.

 

People still like to kill each other for historical reasons, Irish because of the treatment during the past against the English, Serbs and Croats, Arabs against the Jews, there are so many potentials for that but the most likely is North Korea attacking the South.

[Norman Verona]

Jeff, not disagreeing but I think the Irish have moved on since the potato famine and the black & tans. We went there every year for about 20 years and the people were the most welcoming I've ever met. Nothing was too much trouble and it wasn't just because we were tourists with money.

 

We were in a shop in Clifden, Connemara many years ago. HM asked me what Mille Failte meant. I said a thousand welcomes. A little voice behind, in an Irish Brogue said "No, no my dear, it's a million welcomes". I turned and apologised for my mistake and she asked if we were on holiday. I confirmed we were and staying at Renvyle. She asked where we were from and I told her Sheffield. Her faced beamed into a smile and she said she had family there and asked if we knew them. We didn't. She then said we should come to dinner tonight. I was so taken aback I quickly made an excuse and politely refused. However, she did mean it and I will always regret not taking her up on her offer.

 

The IRA in NI are as hated by the Irish in Eire as by the Protestants in NI. They are not freedom fights (may have started that way) but gangsters who use the protection racket, gambling and robbery for financial gain.

 

Isreal with Jew against Arab is a bit of a problem. The Jews and Palestinians get on very well. HM's parents lived in the foothills above Haifa for 10 years and they befriended a few of the Palestinians who lived on the outskirts of the town (Carmielle). They were invited to meals and made very welcome. Jerusalem is full of Palestinians who get on with life and live and work side-by-side with the Jews.

 

The terrorists are mainly from political groups who want to kill all the jews and would never agree to peace. However they are clever enough to make the Israelis the villains and Israelis don't care, if they are fired on and bombed they will retaliate. The main problem on the Israeli side is the saying "Never Again" referring to the concentration camps. 

 

Serbs and Croats go back to Roman times and it will take generation for peace, if ever. However, they will not start a world war.

 

Korea could well be where a major "world" war starts. However I don't think China would allow it. It's in China's interest to keep the USA as a huge consumer for it's goods. That's why they lend the US huge sums of Dollars. China is reported to have more US$ that the US.

 

I can see that the Eurozone will take over from the US in 20 or 30 years. The Euro was starting to be favoured as the currency to be used in places like Brazil until the recent Euro problems. This will come around again. As the US loses it's power, China will target Europe as a market instead of the US which could lead to the US taking some action which would start a war.

 

Hope I'm wrong but that's what I can see may happen.

[SootySport]

Norman , you are the modern version of Nostradamus I think, must be all those Siestas in your quite garden or the Vino talking

 

Don't stop, I like it said the Duchess to the Bishop

[Norman Verona]

I just happen to take a keen interest in the history of the 20th century and spent a ,lot of time in Eire and had inlaws who retired to Israel and lived there for a number of years.

 

As for Korea I only know what I see on the TV. 

 

As has been said elsewhere, if you want to know what will happen in the future, look to the past.

 

I'm just finishing the Martin Gilbert biography of Churchill, volume 3 (i think) from the outbreak of WW2 to July 1940 when Hitler invaded Russia. Must be the 10th time I've read it.

 

Now, where's that bottle of red.

[pistonbroke]

I remember the war , it was in all the papers

[Norman Verona]

I also remember it, we played it in the playground.

[jay.perry]

We are heading off to santa pod next weekend and just noticed the Battle Of Britain Memorial will be doing a fly past on Saturday and Sunday with a Spitfire, a Hurricane and a Lancaster!!! Then on Monday a Dakota.