Dambusters

[Norman Verona]

Marty, was that the Tirpitz?

 

I have this image in my pea sized brain of a plane flying along a fjiord. It did something that the bigger stuff couldn't as it was constructed of wood.

 

Maybe I'm dreaming again, take no notice.

[mikef]

You're thinking of the Mosquito - all wood twin engined light bomber.

[martyblues]

You are thinking of the film 633 squadron which was a fictional film about the Mosquito

 

They were bombing a heavy water production facility half way up a cliff in Norway.

[Welly Jen]

 

Jenny, can you imagine what it must have been like to watch it for real over the skies of Kent in the summer of 1940.

 

Very hard to imagine. We know we won. At the time they didn't know if this was the prelude to an invasion. My parents and both sets of grandparents lived in Hornchurch at the start of the war. A fighter command airfield, so I heard a lot of stories from them growing up. Bombings around the village (as it was then) and the red glow in the sky from fifteen miles away as the east end of London burned by night. My dad was later evacuated to relatives just outside Southampton because they thought it would be safer!

 

Jen

[martyblues]

 

 

There you go

[Norman Verona]

That's it, the Mosquito.

 

 

Jen, I was always embarrassed that my father was unfit for war service. All the other kids had tales of their fathers war exploits, I didn't. When my father died all the family were together and the stories about him started. I listened in awe as they told me of his "job" during the war. He was a fire-watcher in the London Docks (they lived in the East end). So my old man stood on top of a building with a phone and reported where the fires where whilst HE and incendiary bombs rained down. He probably saw more action than most of childhood friends fathers.

 

I've just read the part of Martin Gilberts biography of Churchill (for the umpteenth time) which deals with him taking over as PM and Defence Minister to Germany's attack on Russia. The invasion threat was very real but Churchill was full of confidence that we could beat them back on the sea and the beaches if they tried. In the event "Sealion", Germany code for the invasion was cancelled as they thought it to risky.

 

The Battle of Britain was the Luftwaffe's task to destroy the RAF so the invasion could take place without the RAF present.

[SootySport]

It was the Mosquito that was built of wood, not strictly a bomber.   633 Squadron is the film it was featured in.

The Lancaster was the bomber that dropped and sunk the Tirpitz with a Tallboy bomb again designed by Barnes Wallis.

 

More 4 showing a programme of interest tonight at 9pm.   http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dambusters-building-the-bouncing-bomb/episode-guide/series-1/episode-1

[martyblues]

Nothing to do with OP, but I had 5 Uncles one saw action in Burma Survived

 Two saw action in North Africa and Italy, Survived

Two who, obviously  I never met were both killed in air raids over London one was in the Police Force, another was ARP

[pistonbroke]

A very good family friend of mine was the son of a 617 sqd. Lancaster Pillot , after the war they settled in Llandudno where he owned a hotel (The Elsinor if I remember ) he was also mare of the town at one point . Russel Gradwell was a very very modest man , he told me he was shot down over france during a raid , when I asked him what happened after the crash landing he replied   "I learned to speak french very quickly" it was close to the end of the war , the germans didnt think much of lancaster bomber pilots for some reason . other than telling how he got back home he didnt really want to say much more on the subject , I suspect it was a very painful experience,  dropping 1000 of bombs on helpless civilians mostly women and children , made me realise what an emotional sacrifice it must have been , not at all the glamorous Biggles type of war I read about at school    

[Norman Verona]

Bernie, but as Marty says, they did it.

 

It's a very hard one. The Germans started the indiscriminate bombing of civilians. 

 

I can't remember the numbers exactly but I think we dropped 10 tons for every one they had dropped. That includes the V rockets as well.

 

Chamberlain knew that war is S*** and that's why he tried to appease Hitler. 

[Mid life crisis]

A very good family friend of mine was the son of a 617 sqd. Lancaster Pillot , after the war they settled in Llandudno where he owned a hotel (The Elsinor if I remember ) he was also mare of the town at one point . Russel Gradwell was a very very modest man , he told me he was shot down over france during a raid , when I asked him what happened after the crash landing he replied   "I learned to speak french very quickly" it was close to the end of the war , the germans didnt think much of lancaster bomber pilots for some reason . other than telling how he got back home he didnt really want to say much more on the subject , I suspect it was a very painful experience,  dropping 1000 of bombs on helpless civilians mostly women and children , made me realise what an emotional sacrifice it must have been , not at all the glamorous Biggles type of war I read about at school    

I remember Russel Gradwell from the Elsinor Hotel on the prom, an aquaintance of my dad. That must be over 30 years ago!

 

My dad also flew lancs, not in as glamorous a sqd as 617 though. He ended up flying pathfinder target marking sorties for the large formation raids, stationed in Camebridgeshire. After the war he spent time stationed in Germany awaiting demob, would never go into detail about it though. Do recall that one of his mates from a prievious sqd was Bill Shankley the Liverpool manager.

 

 

Edited to add :-   Seem to rember Russel had a picture of a Lanc in the downstairs bar

[greenandmean]

A few people have mentioned the sound of the Merlin engine and I cannot disagree, at the Bradford Classic car show about 3 years ago they had 2 Merlins and a Griffon engine all trailer mounted who set up shop about 5 yards from my car. Whilst talking to the guys I asked rather tongue in cheek if they were going to fire one up, no came the answer we are firing all 3 up, and all at the same time. Fantastic, brought Bradford to a stand still, fortunately my car was at the side of them and not downwind. During the day they fired them 5 times and every time the area was packed. John Hoole from Wunoff was stood with me for one of the run ups and said there is nothing like open pipes which appealed to my sense of humour coming from a man who makes exhaust systems for a living. The guy running the Griffon kept opening the throttle and then shutting it off very quickly which resulted in unburnt fuel hitting the exhaust, sounded like a machine gun going off. A sound I don't think I would ever tire of.

[Norman Verona]

MLC, The pathfinders were held in awe by the other pilots.

 

They were the ones who got most of the flak and the German fighter pilots targeted them.

 

One of the interesting things about the navigation of the RAF and the Luftwaffe was we had enormous training and our lads were spot on with their navigation. The Germans gave their navigators a day or so and they often missed targets by miles.

 

I hope you proud of your Dad, you should be, he was the creme de la creme.

[pistonbroke]

After a divorce and sale of the hotel Russell ended up selling cockles & mussels from a little hut on Conwy Quay , not out of neccesity more for something to do with his spare time . I often wondered how many tourists realised they were being served by a genuine WW2 hero , not a lot I suspect though he was of course well known and loved by the locals , think he did more fat chewing than cockle selling . His son Peter became a master joiner after an apprenticeship when he started to repair and restore chairs as a hobby for the local hostelery , when not converting oak and ash into sawdust & shavings he was manager of the local Swettenhams estate agents , his wife Glenys had a cafe on Conwy high st.

[AidanPlace]

While not featuring the planes mentioned above, I think I'll watch 1/2 hour of Battle of Britain