Dambusters

[s2rrr]

Excellent to see that there is al least one Mosquito flying, good find Marty.

 

Bob    :yes:    

[jeff oakley]

It was a different era in attitude and action. Our forces of today are just as brave but much better equipped than ever their forebearers were. All the planes of WW2 had no protection when attacked except for machine guns on bombers.

My uncle flew Lancasters in the war and never spoke of the horrors he saw, they knew bombing civilian targets was seen by many as "not cricket" but it was necessary to bring the war direct to the people who supported it but had seen little of it's effect directly.

We will never see the likes of WW2 again thank god unless the rest of the world decide to take on China. Instead we will see local wars like Iraq where cruise missiles will do the job that bombers did without the loss of life to our forces. But imagine if there was a need to call up people today, how many would go? How rich would the law proffession become in legally challenging the decision? That is what sets apart WW2 were people from all walks of life marched away to lay down their lives for our freedom. Men and women in every avenue from spying to the hand to hand combat, who were ordinary before became extraordinary overnight.

All the men and women should have been recognised straight away, from Bomber command and the Artic convoy,s to the Bevan boy's who were drafted to the mines to help the war effort. For a young man who had been a teacher to suddenly become a miner was no less dangerous in many ways and many lost their lives there.

 

When we see all the ills that this country has we must never forget without the sacrific of millions of people we may not have been in the position we are now. They say we always need to look at history to see the future I hope we never repeat what those in the war years went through ever again.

 

On a lighter note, my office at one time was right next to Filton airport in Bristol. There was a steady stream of Spitfires and Hurricanes that came and went as Rolls Royce has a factory there. At least once a month I was privilidged to watch practice air displays by them and even on busy shopping days people would stop and watch with Awe at how beautiful such deadly machines could be.

[Norman Verona]

Jeff, good points. However, I've often wondered if the German civilians really supported the Nazis and the war. They were guilty of allowing a bunch of thugs and gangsters take over their country and murder people because of their political views, religion or way of life. They stood by and did nothing.

 

However I wonder what the average British citizen, (sorry, we don't have citizens, we are subjects,) would do if the same happened here. Would we risk our lives to stop a vile dictator and fight for freedom. I like to think we would.

 

I also ask myself why has it taken so long to recognise all these small groups who served so admirably. There are also the women pilots who ferried the planes across the Atlantic and delivered planes from factories to airfields. ARP wardens, the fire-watchers, the home guard (although they did get medals at the time-I think).

 

Must be more but I can't think of any.

[martyblues]

Well put Jeff, 

Norman, many Germans disagreed with the Nazi regime long before they actually ended up in power. Many of those were bumped off, disgraced, or many other ways of silencing people. 

Hitler was a clever and lucky b******d and protected himself and his thugs well. There were many attempts on his life which he survived. It is apparent that he started to go mad early on in the war, and it has even been suggested that the British wanted to keep him alive, because if power had gone to others in his party, the German war machine might well of succeeded.

[Norman Verona]

One historian I've read reckons that if we had thrown him out of Alsace when he marched in the generals would have removed him the war would not have taken place.

 

He didn't expect Chamberlain to declare war in 1939, he had planned to start a general war in 1941 when his rearmament programme was complete.  Hence the "phoney" war as he rushed production through.

[tex]

I lost my granddad in a Lancaster, he was a rear gunner on his first mission, plane got shot down on the way to Leipzig. The rear turret is so cramped he couldn't wear his parachute. Only 2 bodies were washed up on the Dutch Freisen islands. His was not one of those.

[Norman Verona]

All these stories are, in a perverse sort of way encouraging.

 

Let me explain why I think that.

 

Whilst we have the EU there is little danger of another major European war. However that may not last. The fear is the great grandchildren will not know about the second world war and it could all som easily happen again.

 

As long as the memory of it all is kept alive the risk of it happening again is lessened.

[martyblues]

WE don't have such wars anymore because of nuclear weapons Everybody gets toasted when they go bang, even the top brass

[jeff oakley]

The film was on yesterday afternoon and even though I have seen it loads of times it still is a wonderful film. I read that when they filmed it they had a lot of Lancasters available to them as there were so many still flying. The special effects now are awful.

 

There was talk of peter Jackson who directed Lord Of the rings, doing the film again but there was outcry as the PC brigade wanted the name of his dog changed.

This was an an important thing as the name of the dog that Guy Gibson owned was Nigger, a black labrador, it was also the code name sent in Morse to indicate the dams had been breached. Apparently they wanted to call it Digger in the new version until that was found to offend Austrailians apparently.

 

Barnes Wallace was racked with guilt at the loss of the members of squadron as over 50 men lost their lives in that one raid even though his design did put a huge dent in the German war machine at the time.

[Norman Verona]

We should start a petition to get it made. Only problem is it will probably end up being Hollywood truth instead of the actual truth. Why film makers want to dramatise the truth, which in many cases is far more dramatic. If many stories over the ages were written in books exactly how they happened, people would say it was far-fetched.

 

The history I read stated that within 3 months most of the Ruhr Valley was back in production.

 

You have to sympathise with Wallis, must have been the same with the Manhattan project scientists. Einstein wrote to Truman pleading that a demonstration of the bomb be shown to the Japanese.

 

 

Marty, sorry, can't agree. No side would use their nuclear arsenal as it would assure mutual destruction. Anyway, there are only 2 nuclear powers in Europe, us and Russia.

[martyblues]

 

 

 

Marty, sorry, can't agree. No side would use their nuclear arsenal as it would assure mutual destruction. Anyway, there are only 2 nuclear powers in Europe, us and Russia.

That's my point Norman

 

Ed France

 

Belgium, Germany, The Netherlands, Italy and Turkey: ”Undeclared Nuclear Weapons States

[Norman Verona]

My fear isn't with Russia. It's Germany. The German psyche is one that they will follow any leader who tells them what to do.

 

A German chap I knew who had spent a long time working in the USA told me the difference between Germans and the British.

 

In Britain MR & Mrs Smith will go to the car dealer and tell him what car they want.

 

In Germany Herr & Herress Schmidt will go to the car dealer and he will tell him what car they'll have,

 

By the way, bothe dealerships sell German made cars (I said that)

[jeff oakley]

In some way's Norman it would be better to leave it as it is because yes the Holloywood version would go like this.

 

English whineing about the war haven't got a clue what to do.

 

Heroic American Airman come over a see instantly what they need to do to win the war.

 

A Brad Pit Character would design the bomb and the English would refuse to use it as it was a daft idea.

 

Heroic American with a disregard for rules goes it alone and blows up the Dams using just one bomb on each dam.

 

In the mean time he has his way with all the english girls who all fall in love with him

 

Hooray the American hero is found to be the same one who single handedly fought the Japanese at Pearl Habour and then came to England to teach the Germans a lesson and on his day off managed to capture the Enigma machine in a submarine.

 

War ends earlier due to his actions.

 

Sadly he falls over and dies as the weight of all the medals he wins on his chest pulls him over.

[martyblues]

That is probably  how it would run Jeff, which is such a shame because we do owe a huge personal debt to the American Forces who fought along side the commonwealth, Polish, free French, Israel and British Forces (apologies to those I have missed out). 

[SootySport]

My fear isn't with Russia. It's Germany. The German psyche is one that they will follow any leader who tells them what to do.

 

A German chap I knew who had spent a long time working in the USA told me the difference between Germans and the British.

 

In Britain MR & Mrs Smith will go to the car dealer and tell him what car they want.

 

In Germany Herr & Herress Schmidt will go to the car dealer and he will tell him what car they'll have,

 

By the way, bothe dealerships sell German made cars (I said that)

Things have changed a lot, Germans are no more likely to start or enter a war than anyone else. Their economy is so strong these days, they would just not contemplate involvement and loose the standard of living they have. If you said Economic domination was their goal I would have agreed with you