doctors ,what a joke ,this country is on its arse

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

Pleased you are following the advice Steve.

 

Generally the NHS specialist are very good, certainly been my experience. It's just getting to them that seems to take the time and make you wonder if it's worth it. BUT it is, keep persisting and keep your temper till you have got to the right people.

[Norman Verona]

But surely the point is that the UK taxpayer pays a lot of money for a health service.

 

I know the vast majority of the medical people working in the system mean well and are caring. The problem is there is fat too much non-medical interference and management.

 

get rid of the non medical managers and you will have 1/3rd of the wage bill (an awful lot of money) to spend on doctors and nurses. Then the head doctor of a hospital department can manage it like they used to. A Matron can manage the nurses. Then get stuck into the GPs and get them to earn their money instead of just referring everyone with a real problem to a hospital. 

 

The contracting out of night services means that people are dying. Hospitals running out of nurses means people are dying. Long waiting times means people are dying. And all this whilst the managers and GPs earn far more than most of us on here.

 

I know I go on but I see and hear things that make me really mad as I know how it can be. With similar budgets and populations.

[bhouse]

But surely the point is that the UK taxpayer pays a lot of money for a health service.

Not exactly. We pay a lot of money for a bloated, over-complicated bureaucracy. What's left over is spent on the health aspects of the service. 

[dhutch]

Being medical myself I know most GP's are shocking and their answer is sick note and time off.

 

To be fair I think thats a bit of a sweeping statement!

 

I went to my doctor at uni with same same sort of thing, I suspect, bought on by the increased workload and expectation around exam time, and after a number of pertainant questions and notes being taken, was refered to a specialist.

 - I got re occurance the following year doing my masters year, and the same again almost exactly a year later 4months into my first ever full time adult job, but since then and touch wood its been a lot better.

 

Simularly possitive results when two years later, a year ago, I started getting pains in my arms/wrists etc from using a CAD box 8hours a day straight, thats still on going, but while the main diagnosis is that there nothing as such wrong, I just need to learn to tense less and take more breaks, they have been as good as you would or could expect throughout.

 

 

Daniel

[Norman Verona]

Brian, spot on. You've put it much better than I ever could.

 

Daniel, Of course you're correct. However it only takes a few to get all a bad name. If the service was properly funded they could all do their jobs much better. I go to my doctor every 3 months for a new prescription. Over here they must examine you every 3 months if you're on medication so the prescriptions last 3 months. I get the works, Full examination. I'm in his surgery for 3/4 of an hour. As he's always running late and still seeing his last appointments from about 19:00 at 21:00 most days you'd think he's want you in an out.

 

As I'm a friend as well as a patient I asked him about this. His answer was that he'd rather do his job properly than skimp and miss something that caused serious problems later. 

 

If he's not happy about something he will make an appointment for you at a hospital for further tests or to see a specialist. You're sometimes seen the same day but never later than next day if he thinks it may be serious.

 

So, in France we have a the best health service in the world (according to the UN). In the UK we have a good sickness service. 

[User0083]

Is very much sick note and compensation society now!

The sign off would be to make sure you relax. I have huge list of neurological issues and since getting run over in October my 10 years of recovery have been reversed back to about 18 months post initial discharge. Being ten years older I feel recovery will take even longer!

It's a long haul and you need to look at the positives. I'm extremely lucky to be alive and after 6 weeks in coma (In 2004) I'm very lucky I'm a functioning human and not in need of full care. You know yourself better than anyone and know what could've been. Your business is successful, you're happier now and the amount of westfield's and civic type-r's you try selling on here must be signs things are going well!

[Wile E. Coyote]

I have a appointment now with hospital ,I just wanted to get on with my life and move on after the joke that they call Leighton hospital

 

Are you off to Warrington or Stoke this time, Steve?

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Oooh that's a low blow Chris!     

[Wile E. Coyote]

Not really, Dave - from here I'd probably go to one of those two, and with Steve sounding p******** off about Leighton thought he might have chosen a different hospital this time.

[Young Pretender]

Steve, I haven't read this thread (other than your first post) and I'm a real ambassador for the NHS but in your case, not least because you are self employed, get yourself private for a full health check and whatever else is required to diagnose your health probs.  It's money well spent!

[Young Pretender]

So, in France we have a the best health service in the world (according to the UN). In the UK we have a good sickness service.

Norm, I don't deny that France, from what I've heard, have possibly the best health service in the world but here we have the largest public health service in the world which is rarely commended despite all the good work that is performed on a daily basis. Personally my own experiences and that of my family have been nothing but top notch.

We only highlight or speak about the bad experiences - it's a bit like looking at a car forum before you make a purchase and seeing all the stories of motoring issues.

That said there are always ways to improve and not all the focus should be on healthcare services themselves e.g healthcare tourism.

imo of course

[Tricky]

Steve only met you briefly at Aintree so please don't take this the wrong way, try not to get wound up about everything and listen to your mates, speak the dept that treated you before or as advised go private, I've been in a similar position 12 years ago and ended up very agitated which made matters worse.

 

Rich.

[Norman Verona]

YP, I probably thought the same before I moved here.

 

I'm sure there are many people in the NHS who really try and do a good job. However from what I see they are stopped by the red tape put there by politicians and non-medical managers.

 

I'm off to bed now so may continue tomorrow.

[Young Pretender]

We shouldn't constantly bash the NHS without any balance, not saying you do this more of a general point.  It's not constructive or good for those that do a great job from within.

 

I agree with you regarding management tiers.  I would also be interested to understand what is so different about the French model that allows it to operate so well.  Is the fact that it's 1/4 private funded important here?

[Norman Verona]

In reality the French system is, in our eyes all private. But they have different views on "private" than we do. Each hospital is it's own company and charges for it's services itself. The government issue guidelines on charges (set by doctors) and if they keep to these charges they get subsidies.

 

 

I'll tell you of an incident and comparison. I've told this before so if you remember it stop reading now.

 

I went to my French doctor and was in his surgery at 12:00. I complained of being short of breath if I tried any exertion. By 14:00 (that day) I was in the local hospital being seen by the cardiologist and was give an Ultra Sound. 

 

We came back to the UK about 8 months after this. I went to my doctor and told him the history and that the condition was returning. He made an request for an appointment, on his computer, with the Northern General Hospital in Sheffield for an Ultra Sound examination.

 

About 4 months went by and still no date so I went back (with HM for her asthma treatment) and asked him if the appointment had been lost. He looked and told me there was a big backlog and I was coming to the top.

 

Two weeks later the phone rings and it's a nurse from the Ultra Sound unit asking if I can attend on Saturday morning. I said of course I could and she was almost screaming with joy.

 

I go to the appointment but think there must be a mistake as the unit is unlit, there's no one in reception and no one appears to be there. I call out "Hello" and a nurse comes out and asks me if I have an appointment this morning. We go into the treatment room and she starts doing the US on my heart. We are chatting. Her story goes like this.

 

The nurses have got together to come in, unpaid, on Saturday to reduce the backlog. However most people don't want to come in on Saturday as they lose the chance of a day off work! (this is why she was so happy when I said it was OK).

 

We started talking about the NHS and I explained I lived in France and how different the two health services are. 

 

She then told me something that, at first  I didn't believe. When she started as a nurse, 25 years earlier, she worked at the Hallamshire Hospital (Sheffield). The doctor of her department ran the department. He had fortnightly meetings after hours with the nurses and receptionists to discuss ways they could improve the service and to decide what equipment and/or additional staff they needed. They sent their requests to the finance department and always got what they wanted.

 

She then told me how it worked now. The management was a committee of non medical managers who met every 3 months to discuss her department. No representative from the department would be present. They had requested two more nurses to cope with the workload. The meeting after that request they had provided them with a machine which cost close to a million pounds. She pointed and I saw a large square machine covered in a plastic cover. She explained it had never been used and would never be used. They just didn't need it.

 

Now, you say we shouldn't complain about the NHS. I say that not only must we complain we must find a politician who will stop this nonsense and get him elected PM. If we don't it will only get worse. It seems to me that the NHS spends 1/3rd of it's wage bill on non-medical management. The French have the doctors manage their departments as we used to. 1/3rd of the NHS could be spent on medical staff and the correct equipment to provide the service the French have.