Benefits capped

[M444TTB]

Wonder what my chances of a full (or any) state pension will be when I retire?! Assuming I'm lucky enough to do that at 65 (ha!) in 2047 having worked for 45 years I expect to see b******* all. My company retiremt age has already gone up by 5 years since I started too.

[FILFAN]

I strongly suspect that your shops are full of immigrant workers isn't about pay. It may be because the immigrants work and the Brits don't.

 

 

 

yes i agree there its not about wages its about our culture. we seem to be scared of hard work. when you see people from other cultures working in say a coffee shop they do it well and take pride in their work where they come from if they dont work they dont have food, a home or anything. there is no state backup.

 

 

I've not heard that job seekers allowance is means tested. Care home costs are. My sister-in-law spent about 30 years in Israel. She came back about 6 years ago. She is complaining that she has to work until 67 before she gets a pension. A full pension. If this is true then I'm disgusted.

 

extract from this gov website When you won’t qualify

Usually, you won’t qualify if you:

• have savings above £16,000
• need permission to enter the UK
• get Jobseeker’s Allowance or Employment and Support Allowance
• are a young person being looked after by a local authority

[Norman Verona]

Phil, that's not job seekers allowance it's income support. Quite right, why would you need income support with £16,000 in the bank. Income support is to top up low wages.

 

When I left my company that I hold sold to a US corporation I thought I could sign on. Having never had any benefit other than 2 weeks sick pay in 1962 (about 10/- a week) I went to the job centre. After 2 hours of queueing and form filling I was told I wasn't eligible and could appeal. What they didn't tell me was that if I applied in 6 weeks I would get job seekers allowance (the dole). 

 

I appealed to a panel. Some months later I got a letter informing me my appeal had been rejected, but not why. I sent it back with a note that the applicant had died of starvation so didn't need any financial help now.

[M444TTB]

You left your company and thought you could sign on!?

[Norman Verona]

It was no longer my company. I'd sold it. I just wanted to see how it worked. I had paid NI for 33 years at that time. The point is that I was entitled to JSA as I'd been made redundant.

 

I should also explain that there were 3 shareholders, Myself, an accountant and a "silent" member. I did all the work to build the business. The accountant did what accountants do and built an empire of paper and staff. The silent shareholder just took money.

 

We now have a company with no specific accounts staff. The customers are all charged by DD which is automated through our system. The suppliers are likewise automatically paid electronically when the statement are checked against the pl postings. That takes 1/2 day a month.

 

Our system produces the management account quarterly (no need for monthlies as we invoice customers quarterly). It took a few days hard work to build the spreadsheet that extracts the figures from our nominal ledger but it was worthwhile.

[jim_l]

Unfortunately folks we are battling with human nature, whether we like it or not,  if you make benefits available to people, a substantial number of them will take them, whether they need them or not. This is evidenced by these facts:

a) Some 800,000 people dropped their claims for disabililty benefit when faced with the requirement to undergo an assessment,

b) 10's of thousands are living in social housing as a lifestyle choice, because it is there,

c) Of the people thought to be affected by the benefits cap recently introduced in London (that is, people whose benefits would have exceeded £24000 per year)  8,000 appear to have gone and found work

 

In fact the people whose benefits would exceed £24000 a year represent a tiny percentage of the people claiming benefits, but take billions of pounds out of the economy each year! it is insanity, and it will deprive all of us of something , our healthcare, care for the elderly, perhaps our pensions, if it is allowed to continue....

 

Assessing and means testing benefits is an absolute must if it isn't to bankrupt us, in which case we all lose out, you, me, and most significantly those really in need. A benefits cap is not something I would generally support, some people in genuine need will be affected, but if where someone lives is driving a need for £2000 a month in benefits then there should be a programme in place to move them to a place where we (since we are paying) can afford for them to live.

 

 

Balance the books or go bankrupt..Greece style.

[FILFAN]

Phil, that's not job seekers allowance it's income support. Quite right, why would you need income support with £16,000 in the bank. Income support is to top up low wages.

 

 

 

 

same rule applies clicky

[User0083]

Something brushed a few times is food vouchers and the like.

In my opinion a majority of these people spend money on drink, fags and crap. If they could prioritise money and ditched "why can't I have the £1500 TV?" Attitude most would be able to manage on what they have.

My dad never paid a penny to my mum, she didn't go for benefits, she worked two jobs for years and sometimes borrowed food off next door. We didn't have much for years. Then she got lucky with a few cars and houses and money was good again.

[jeff oakley]

Unfortunately folks we are battling with human nature, whether we like it or not,  if you make benefits available to people, a substantial number of them will take them, whether they need them or not. This is evidenced by these facts:

a) Some 800,000 people dropped their claims for disabililty benefit when faced with the requirement to undergo an assessment,

b) 10's of thousands are living in social housing as a lifestyle choice, because it is there,

c) Of the people thought to be affected by the benefits cap recently introduced in London (that is, people whose benefits would have exceeded £24000 per year)  8,000 appear to have gone and found work

 

In fact the people whose benefits would exceed £24000 a year represent a tiny percentage of the people claiming benefits, but take billions of pounds out of the economy each year! it is insanity, and it will deprive all of us of something , our healthcare, care for the elderly, perhaps our pensions, if it is allowed to continue....

 

Assessing and means testing benefits is an absolute must if it isn't to bankrupt us, in which case we all lose out, you, me, and most significantly those really in need. A benefits cap is not something I would generally support, some people in genuine need will be affected, but if where someone lives is driving a need for £2000 a month in benefits then there should be a programme in place to move them to a place where we (since we are paying) can afford for them to live.

 

 

Balance the books or go bankrupt..Greece style.

 

This is pretty much spot on. As you say social housing for some is a lifestyle choice. Bob Crowe head of the rail union over £100k salary lives in a council house in London, is that what social housing was meant for?

The 800,000 who dropped their claims, this correct. The residents of merthyr tydfil were up in arms, even the Doctors admitted they were putting people through as disabled as they get more money than unemployment benefit, but the truth was they were not disabled just using the system to their advantage.

When faced with a situation that where they would not get the money they had 8000 found jobs. This proves the point if the benefit system is made to be basic so that there were no spare money for luxeries, then people would work.

As for the Capping to 24k. If they cannot afford to saty in London move out. If you were employed and could not afford the rent that is what you would do as you would have no choice.

I would look at areas like Liverpool and Newcastle and regenerate the two up two down houses that lie empty and then offer those to people who can no longer afford to live in an area as an alternative. Once you say no to people they will take another path.

Sounds harsh, but unless we are with some of those who are taking advantage, we will suffer the fall out in the future.

[Norman Verona]

Phil, i'm surprised at that (JSA requirement). I was turned down as I hadn't claimed within 6 weeks. Had they told me this I could have reclaimed 6 weeks later and got my dole money. The people who claim benefits as a matter of course will know this.

 

I agree with all above as long as we protect those in genuine need. Surely it wouldn't be that difficult to create panels for each area consisting of a doctor, JP, teacher, solicitor (all from outside the area to access claims for extra benefit. I would suspect that they would be busy for a few months but as soon as people realised they can't just turn up and get an OK the panel could probably meet once a week.

 

Changing direction slightly, when are we going to see government take some genuine cuts. So far all I've seen is cuts to budgets which are passed on to the public as a reduction in services.

[woodman]

The benefits need to be cut in order to make them take the jobs that all the Eastern Euros are currently filling.

In Herefordshire there are communities of them, bigger than the  villages they are in, working the land

This would also then save all the Tax Credit money going to Poland and the like, at least it would then stay and be spent in this country

[Norman Verona]

I don't understand how someone can arrive in the UK and, according to UKIP, start drawing benefits as they land.

 

In France i didn't get any benefits, which was health care, until the UK government paid for it in the form of (aprox,) £2500 per annum by issuing a card with a number like 121 (?).

 

I'm not sure I can claim any other form of benefit here but won't be surprised to find I can't.

 

This is correct. I don't expect benefits but the point is how do France do it but we can't?

[jim_l]

I think, technically EU law entitles migrants to full benefits on arrival , but some rules are being applied , i.e no 'out of work' type benefits until you have been in work here for 12 months.

 

You know what really takes my breath away...Liverpool City Council , i.e. us the taxpayer, provide a 'Benefits Maximisation Team'  The head of which is quoted as saying:

 

         'we want to raise awareness of the various benefits residents may be entitled to and make sure they claim what's theirs'

 

what the devil!

[User0083]

Jeff,

Great point! I believe there are old coal miners hoses that are worth poke all and empty. Instead of building new blocks, move people in them! People that really need a house will take a house anywhere. If they can afford to be picky they have too much money and don't need benefits.

[User0083]

As for the £24/£25k cap, it's ridiculous!!!

I have mates living on £12k jobs, no benefits, and they survive pretty well. It's tight, but they have a rented place, small TV, food and clothes.

I'm sure that a high percentage of soldiers in afghan are on less than £25k!

The issue is that benefits are too high and cash, not coupon style system. My sister in law finished Uni last year, she's 31 and just got another degree... Started a bottom of the ladder style job. Was promised promotion and working up the chain as soon as spaces came up. Long story... Fact was she was £7k down a year coming off benefits, but potential of getting decent wage kept her going. 8 months later she's back on benefits as she couldn't afford the drop in money by working.

However... £90 hair cuts (one a month so that roots don't show)

iPhone 5

New flat screen TV

Had 4 brand spankers cars in five years

Mew pc's at a grand a time every year (because some new gadget on it)

Always money for smokes

Clothes worth more than mine...

List goes on.