Is reverse gear required

[harrypotter]

Although I don't own a westfield I do value your experience on most kit car matters.

 

I have a road going kit car with a rear mounted motor bike engine (20 chassis's manufactured in 12 months) and wondered if I could start hillclimbing without having to fit a reverse gear mechanism? As a complete novice I'm not really bothered which class I would end up in.

 

I've tried to look at the regs and google for info, but easily get confused!

[Mark (smokey mow)]

To compete in any of the road going classes you need a reverse gear but in non road going such as the modified specialist production or sports libre catagories of the MSA regs you don't need one. in these classes however the safety regulations for the car to comply with are a lot more strict so it may require a bit of work to comply with those regs depending on what the car is.

[harrypotter]

Thank you Smokey Mow.

 

Just trying to understand the roll bar regs has persuaded me to look again at the  road going classes and fitting a reverse (if possible)!

[davidgh]

Stephen

 

If you are talking Mojo/J15/R1ot/Riot, you may find that you can upgrade the roll protection for not much more cost or hassle than fitting a reverse gear. Certainly, if the reverse were going to be fitted purely for competition purposes, I'd regard roll-over protection as a far better investment of cash and weight. As you are in Redditch, you could give Nigel at Cougar Engineering a call for advice.

 

HTH

 

David

 

P.S. In addition to the Westie, I sometimes run a Striker-Busa (without reverse) in sprints  --  it's a hoot.

[davidgh]

Sorry Stephen, I now see you are an MNR man. Doesn't invalidate anything else I said though 

[harrypotter]

Stephen

 

If you are talking Mojo/J15/R1ot/Riot, you may find that you can upgrade the roll protection for not much more cost or hassle than fitting a reverse gear. Certainly, if the reverse were going to be fitted purely for competition purposes, I'd regard roll-over protection as a far better investment of cash and weight. As you are in Redditch, you could give Nigel at Cougar Engineering a call for advice.

 

HTH

 

David

 

P.S. In addition to the Westie, I sometimes run a Striker-Busa (without reverse) in sprints  

 

Thanks for that David

 

I now run a Sprint R1 which is a single seater, originally designed by MK I think (I must update my details!). I've no idea what spec the roll bar is made to, but it is welded straight into the chassis.

 

I presume that sprints and hillclimbs run under the same regs, so does that mean the striker is in the modified class?

 

Where are Cougar based?

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

Can you post up a picture of the car as a quick google showed the sprint R1 as a normal 7 type. 

 

Regs are the same for sprints & hillclimbs, I would have thought running it in roadgoing would be a better option to start with as otherwise you might get very dissapointed with times compared with the rest of the class.

[Mark (smokey mow)]

Can you post up a picture of the car as a quick google showed the sprint R1 as a normal 7 type.

Regs are the same for sprints & hillclimbs, I would have thought running it in roadgoing would be a better option to start with as otherwise you might get very dissapointed with times compared with the rest of the class.

The MK Sprint R is what became the Road Runner SR1

http://www.roadrunnerracing.net/detail/7-roadrunner-racing-sr1.html

http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/bike-powered-cars/cars/roadrunner-sr1-yamaha-r1-1000cc-in-yellow/641436

[davidgh]

Where are Cougar based?

 

The Hamlet,

Church Road,

Bradley Green,

Redditch,

Worcestershire B96 6RN

01527821675

 

HTH

[davidgh]

I would have thought running it in road-going would be a better option to start with as otherwise you might get very disappointed with times compared with the rest of the class.

 

You'd be amazed at the spread of times in ModSpecProd and Sports Libre in local and regional sprints, Nick. Chris and I were 10 seconds ahead of the other four cars in ModSpecProd <1400cc at Lydden in October    (after they failed to get us demoted to Sports Libre)  --  but we'd have won that by several seconds as well.

 

However, if Stephen were to dive straight into a national championship, you might be right.

[harrypotter]

The MK Sprint R is what became the Road Runner SR1

http://www.roadrunnerracing.net/detail/7-roadrunner-racing-sr1.html

http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/bike-powered-cars/cars/roadrunner-sr1-yamaha-r1-1000cc-in-yellow/641436

That's the baby.

 

Am I right in thinking that the existing roll bar will cause me a problem in the 'modified' class?

 

The Hamlet,

Church Road,

Bradley Green,

Redditch,

Worcestershire B96 6RN

01527821675

 

HTH

Many thanks for for the above. What type of work do they normally do, or what are they capable of?

 (the photos show the exact same roll bar that mine has)

[davidgh]

Stephen

 

Absolutely not an expert, but I think you could get some grief from Scrute on: no lateral diagonal brace, forward/aft bracing projecting forward (rather than back), and it not being >30° from vertical. However, we've all seen some abominations competing, so there would seem to be some flexibility of view. Personally, I think I'd want a little more protection than you currently have, whichever class you choose to compete in.

 

It could pay to get an opinion from your local club scrutineer (local club will give you the name). If you were not going to maintain road legality (Tax/MOT/insurance) you'd need to get an MSA log book from him anyway. A chat with scrute will cost a few quid (fifty-ish from memory), but could be very useful.

 

Cougar is a very small engineering shop specialising in kit-cars. His main specialities are the preparation of car derived competition engines and welding. I mentioned him because he's local to you, and I know he designed and fitted a roll cage to the car of a well-known competitor who subsequently not only survived a roll but required little more than a touch up to his cage.

 

HTH

[harrypotter]

I was thinking of arranging a visit from the scrutineer to get his first hand view and maybe if I was move forward with the hillclimb /sprint idea I could get his official confirmation that it met the MSA requirements before turning up at an event and having a possible argument (It's not a well known kitcar and could cause all sorts of raised eyebrows I'm sure!)

 

As far as the times in the various classes are concerned, the fast boys in both road going and modified  are very fast (and close to each other sometimes!). Often beating some of the single seaters at my local Shelsley hillclimb. As you confirm though, at other events at the same venue, the times are all over the place. I do know that I would be super slow compared to the experienced folk.

 

I can't work out if I would be better off getting used to the car by doing a few track days this year and then reviewing the situation next year (maybe taking in a few schools at various venues as well).

 

I'll keep Cougar's number handy.

 

Thanks

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

Thanks Smokey for the pics.

 

Harry, looking at the photo's of your car I remember it now. IMHO you should arrange for an MSA Log Book for the car which you get through your local scrutineer. You will find that it could receive protests at events as other competitors may want it put in with the Racing cars or Sports Libre. You can log book it as a roadgoing car or modified roadgoing, but you will need to prove it has a V5 logbook, MOT and that more than 20 were made in a 12 month period. From what I remember of the car that might be a problem.

 

If you want to chat through then PM me your number.

[mark.anson]

Of course you could always sell the MK and buy a Wesfield and sign up to the speed series. ( or sign up anyway and enter class J)