Immigration, the politicians are all getting on that band wagon.

[Norman Verona]

What a load of codswallop being spouted about immigrants not speaking English.

 

It doesn't need complicated schemes or programmes.

 

Just stop spending millions on translation services. Full stop.

 

The immigrant will soon learn English.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ps, No one translates into English over here. You have to try speaking in French. I went to the tax office to ask what the exchange rate I should use for my annual return. They ent a fetched a young girl down. I explained what I needed in French. She asked me several question in French to which I answered as best I could. She them broke into perfect English. Turns out she is English born and came to France with her parents when she was 4. She explained she only spoke in English to thos who made an effort to speak in French. Quite correct.

[Dodgey]

I "almost" agree about learning the native language. I certainly agree we should stop wasting money having everything translated into every know language to man. The only place I have seen as much translation is in Arizona, where everything is in Spanish too.

 

I toured through France and at one camp site in Provence where I stayed for a week or more, I chatted to the owner's son every evening in the best French I could manage - I was working hard on a computer based French course at the time. On the last night as we sipped our Pastis tomates he revealed he spoke perfect Engish, for the same reason, he thought I should try to speak French. Great, but I'd spent a week talking about crap like the weather and what I'd eaten as I couldn't manage much more. A wasted opportunity for good conversations.

 

When I crossed the border to Italy it was the polar opposite. Nobody spoke much English but they all desperately wanted to try. In the end, even though several of my best friends in Italy spoke good English, I went to night school and learnt Italian over 2 years ( my basic French, it transpired, was a good foundation for Italian! - and now my Italian is a great foundation for Spanish!). Partly because I just wanted to and partly because it's the only way to properly integrate in a different culture - you need to understand the nuances of what's being said, particularly in group conversations - which I still struggle with to be honest.

 

I have zero problems with immigration - the global borders are dissolving as their importance slowly erodes - we need to get used to it - but I do cringe at the way GB gold plates equal opportunities, to the point that even a simple notice in the Post Office is in Polish, Hungarian, Welsh, Urdo, etc etc. It's got a bit daft.  

[alexander72]

mange tout Norman - Mange tout.....  also, did any one read that great quote out of the WSCC Magazine?  "whats the french for Sorbet"  a classic.....

[Norman Verona]

Dodgey, It's very interesting over here. We've become friends with our Doctor. When we first went to him his English was non existent. The other doctor in the practice speaks English very well but HM didn't like him so we go to see the doctor who only speaks French.

 

When I go to see him professionally I speak in French, he speaks in English.

 

Many others who we've got to know want to practice their English on us. We want to practice our French.

 

You're right about the Latin based languages. If you speak one the others seem easy. Most of the French we know can get by in Spanish.

 

James, bit like "Pity the French don't have a word for entrepreneur" 

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

The world is now such a small place that immigration is only going to increase, we need to learn to live with it and adjust. But I do agree with Norman, in the UK we spend far too much on getting things translated. If you move into a country the least you can do is learn the language. I do worry that we have far too many "areas" of specific immigrant's that seem to have their own sub-culture. But all European countries have this problem.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Had a similar experience when I lived in Germany for a bit, many conversations would see me speaking my awkward school boy German while being spoken back to in English. Often with me constantly asking the speaker to use German, as I was over there trying to learn it. Of course, the same was true of many people i met, they wanted to hone their (usually good if not excellent) English.

 

Mind you, accents did give us all a good laugh, I'd point out that many I met were  speaking with an (often Southern) US accent*, they'd point out that I was developing a Frankfurt ish sort of accent.

 

*(Lots of big US air force and army bases in the area at the time.)

[alexander72]

I work in Australia occasionally and in Sydney there is a diverse set of communities (Chinese, Greek, Indian, European) and I think that's down to the fact that almost the entire population of non Aboriginal people are "immigrants"....

 

 I am certainly more tolerant these days of economic migration as I go to Hungary and fell their tree's and sell the chip to the Germans and the Austrians, (the locals hate it) so i feel that i'm just the same as other nationalities over here.

 

I have received a great deal of real hatred in Romania where we have bought land with tree's on as it was cheaper that just buying the tree's in the UK.... i kid ye not.  We are considering  removing the over-story (old Quercus Cerris) for making massive oak beams for ski chalets.  The local's are almost militant in sabotaging our activities.....

 

Nick you are right - mixing in culture and language of the host should be the expectation as a courtesy...

[jeff oakley]

The reason that they are jumping on the bandwagon is simple, it is a vote winner. They have seen the BNP rise in popularity as the unemployed balme the immigrants for taking their jobs and many of those in work blame them for pushing wages down.

There is nothing wrong with controlled immigration, but there is a lot wrong with a free for all that gives benefits to everyone once they are here. That is why so many asylam seekers treck across thousands of miles of safe EU countries to reach the UK.

spend some time with low wage earners in any big city and see this.

 

We do spend too much time looking after minorities in this country with printed leaflets translators etc and when times are hard people look for a scapegoat.

The poiticians are the ones who set the rules now they are feeling a backlash.

[SteveD]

just oops, i said a naughty word! em all off simples ,more jobs for us more room on our roads  etc etc etc etc etc blah de blah

[Norman Verona]

Problem with that Steve is that the Brits just won't do all those low paid jobs. And when they do they don't do them well. 

 

I helped out the Somali group in Sheffield. When I'd got their trust the head man asked me if I could get the council to stop sending people round to translate everything for his people. 

 

Maybe there's the rub. It's OK laying off the bin men and the road diggers but not so when it comes to highly paid white collar folk doing jobs with, not only no value, but maybe negative value.

 

As said above, there are less and less borders now, the internet is borderless and countries are going the same way. Just like this club, we should expect people to put something before getting something out.

[Mark Stanton]

Have to agree its just a ploy to win votes   being born and bred around Birmingham, West Midlands - its always been a multi-cultural melting pot and many years and everyone got on relatively fine - with most immigrants using English

 

 

 

Now however a good number of inner city areas are nothing but ghettos    where english is very much a second language and everyone keeping very much within their own circle

 

je ne comprend pas

[Norman Verona]

I think it was this that Enoch Powell's "rivers of blood" speech was about. He wasn't racist, only pointing out the problems of creating ghettos.

[Mark Stanton]

Yep I think so - Enoch was a well educated intelligent man, being an MP in Wolverhampton, fully aware of ethnic diversity and how this country had grown so well with an acceptance for integrated immigration - I would consider his "in"famous speech as a strong warning of what now appears to be happening - immigration without integration or respect

[Norman Verona]

He was also an Indiaphile and spoke Urdu.

 

A dear departed friend of mine shadowed him during that period. Mat was a card carrying communist and the secretary of the Angry Brigade. When I asked him about Powell he just shrugged. I'm sure if he thought he was racist he would have said so.

[housebeautician]

I think its more a case that the brits cannot afford to do these low paid jobs !

It's ok if you want to live 20 to a house and on a hot bed system (And don't say it don't happen as i have seen it many times ) 

 

It's funny how the french manage to force (sorry encourage) immigrants to speak the lingo by saying sorry we no understand, its about time we did the same.

 

My daughter in law was a teacher in a primary school in the wembley area. Most of the kids are Indian with a number of others mixed in, her head teacher told her that she would have to learn their language in order to teach them. This is madness,how are they to intergrate when the rules allow this. Needless to say she moved to another school. 

Think i better shut up now