Gbs Zero

[TAFKARM]

So a friend of mine wants to build a kit car on the cheap, and is drawn to the GBS Zero mainly for its price!

I don't know much about them other than they used to be Robin Hood, so presumably aren't very good.

To the floor...why are they regarded as being rubbish?

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Are they?

There was a particular Robin Hood product - the Lightweight that was regarded as rubbish when it was first launched, but I wouldn't be so dismissive of their other models.

From th very limited amount I've seen of their old Robin Hood regular kits, they were OK for the very little amount of money they cost. They were heavy, it's true, and may be not the best dynamically, but then that didn't seem to be their market either.

Having had a look at their current chassis at Donnington, much about it looked decent. Not sure about the rear roll bar stay mounts which didn't exactly look structural, but otherwise it looked a big leap forward from their older product.

[alexander72]

i've seen a GBS zero built by Jody Arch of Kimbolton with a 2.1 Pinto and it was a magnificent machine... very well thought out kit, very well put together and by the evidence on the rollers at NMS a bully little car to boot....

[alexander72]

ooops watched whole episode of Downton Abbey last night..... a lovely car well built by a very good engineer

[TAFKARM]

OOh Blimey! why are they so cheap?

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Possibly not entirely as straightforward a questions as it appears...

The glib answer would be that it's cause you have to "do" a lot more on the Zero, and that your hand is held anywhere near as much as it is with a Westfield kit. Though the Zero is probably a lot closer than the old 2B (?), sorry not well up on the model name/numbers.

For example, as near as I can see, with a Zero, essentially the nose, and front and rear wings are the only grp parts. The rest are metal, many of which require some degree of forming and final shaping by the builder, though the bonnet is Pre rolled. Do a good job, and you could have a well made metal bodied Seven style car, but there's a lot more room for mistakes!

The more complicated answer would be that, as with many things, the actual components are only part of what you're paying for when you buy something, there's elements of marketing, R&D and all the myriad other factors to be taken into account.

WSC has invested a lot in the future as far as development goes, OK, so some, the Sport Turbo, may not appeal to many of us in the UK enthusiast market so much, but it's still a vital model for the companies future and has opened up previously unavailable markets. But then there seems to have been plenty of more enthusiast aimed development too, some, such as the Omex Supercharged Duratec project were still born and had to be abandoned. The work done still had to be paid for though... Other projects, such as the S2000 engined car have made it into production.

At the same time, Westfield have been doing some, for a maker in its size range, cutting edge work with electric vehicles. Again, at the moment, something the market isn't perhaps quite ready for, but they're there doing the work, with others of course, looking for ways to take the company forward.

All of these add costs to the existing product.

[TAFKARM]

Thanks that makes sense. I had a feeling it might not be quite as simple as bolting it all together...

[GuitarmanUK]

Well, I can chip in here as I have one. They are nothing, and I mean nothing, like the old Robin Hoods. Chassis design wise, they are very similar to a Westfield (I part built a Westfield 13 years ago) and the build quality is very good. A lot of the panels are aluminium ( they do a stainless steel option as well) with just the nose, mudguards and rear arches in GRP, so they do require a bit more work to build ( I have a build blog if anyone is interested).

Price wise, if you go for all new parts, they will be a little bit less than a Westfield, but not by a lot. I have a new 2.0 Zetec in mine with a lot of factory option parts putting my total build to over 12K. Having said that, there are a lot of builders who have gone with the pinto engine and refurbished parts and got on the road a lot cheaper.

One of the reasons I went for the GBS Zero was the fact I could buy the parts as I could afford them, and it worked well for me that way. I am very happy with the finished car.

[TAFKARM]

Thanks guitarman - I don't suppose you have a breakdown of costs? They quote less than 3k plus donor on the website and my friend needs some convincing it might end up costing a tad more

[sweet orange]

Also, like us Westfield lot, Robin Hood club has a good turn out at the car shows.

Owners always happy to chat.

[GuitarmanUK]

Thanks guitarman - I don't suppose you have a breakdown of costs? They quote less than 3k plus donor on the website and my friend needs some convincing it might end up costing a tad more

Russ. I know that it is possible to get one on the road for £6K to £7K by using as much of the donor as possible so I think he has miss-read the £3K + donor on the web site. Even GBS admit that to build a car to factory spec will cost you at least £12K.

If you think that the starter kit is £2350 and this is the bare chassis, ali panels, lighting and GRP (there may be few bits more, I can't remember), then add the cost of the engine (I spent around £3K on a new Zetec with Raceline sump, plennum chamber, smaller alternator etc), then add wheels (£500), instruments (£400), seats, trim etc and you can soon see how the price starts to mounts up.

I know there are areas that I could have spent less on and there are areas I could have spent a lot more on. If your friend thinks he can build for £3K + a donor, please tell him to think again.

Hope this helps.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

While its always possible to do these things on a real tight budget, you have to be very good at tracking down absolute steals and freebies, parts wise. (I'm convinced it's a tallest you either have or don't, and I know I don't!)

Otherwise, the costs stack up, as Guitarman said. (The same for any kit, to be fair though)

Throw in suspension, electrics, exhausts etc. too, and they're just the headline, "big" items that everyone thinks of. It's always surprising to builders how much all the little odds and sods that no one tends to notice so much all add up. Things like plumbing parts, hoses, radiator, fan etc. All the bolts and fasteners, paints, oils, cleaners and all the things needed to recon, or at least "pretty up" the second hand bargains that you've found.

That said, if you treat the build as a hobby, not a race, and are building for the right reason - because you've always wanted to, or just enjoy building things, then taking you're time and scouring the for-sales, breakers yards, eBay etc will help keep the parts costs down a bit.

Building your own kit can be a hugely rewarding and highly, addictively, enjoyable experiance, but the one thing it's not, is a cheap way to own the kit car you fancy.

[Hammy]

A good way in my opinion would be to buy an old Westfield , strip and re-build it . This has the prospect of a cheap car, still plenty to do , and no IVA worries.

A Few X/flows appear for good money and would make sound projects -a nice Pre lit went of Ebay for £3500 last week.

You also see a few partly completed kits which may be worth a look.

[Dommo]

What about some of the MX5 based efforts where they use the MX5 subframes and the like. They're quite cheap, if a touch 'ugly'. I think they're reasonably easy to build too.

[User0083]

Not read all of the thread,

I had the predecessor of the Zero, 2B+, and was a member of the owners club for a couple of years.

Issues on these cars spawn from the monkey building them in the first place and parts used. Mine had a pinto 2.1 which had been bored to 2.2 and had a T4 turbo! Insane power, willwood 6 pots front, stock sierra drums on the rear!!!

As far as the 2B+ goes, it's ok as a starter kit I guess, but does not handle, does not hold any corner or straight and feels like a kids go kart flying down a hill out the back of the house. There was the sliding pillar before... Full lock caused brake discs to grind on front suspension and worse handling than 2B+!

However, the zero's look a lot better and are a bit better constructed as a kit and are getting closer to westfield's. I have driven a few different 7's, and I have to say "Save you cash and buy a Westfield." I hired a caterham mon-fri before buying the Westfield and price did dictate to a degree, but the westfield's defiantly better.