Checking Space Frame Is Sound ?

[StanS]

In preparation for looking for a suitable S8 (will have to be next year due to commitments at the moment), I wondered if there were any pointers for checking the integrity of the space frame mainly for rust but also trueness.

Its difficult on a short test drive to get a true feel for the car unless its something pretty bad, so I assume the only real test would be to get it checked on a jig ? Can this be done without taking it apart ?

Is there much of a problem with rust nowadays ?

I had an 9 year old S2 Lotus 7 in 1970 and the lower front suspension arm broke away from the space frame as I was turning into my garage, leaving the front o/s wheel with a crazy amount of negative camber !! The space frame had corroded badly in that area Very worrying. It was repaired (and the car sold), but I'd like to avoid a similar experience !

thanks,

Stan

[peterg]

Rust in itself isn't usually the problem but there have been chassis with cracks found, often in the area around the diff as that takes a pounding particularly in big power cars like Seights but they're not confined to that area...

A good visual check of the car is about all you can do, the good thing is they are all repairable (or replaceable if too bad) and SteveD on here runs his own bodyshop (Winsford Bodyshop in Cheshire) with all the right jigs and equipment for fixing them and has sorted out loads of members cars over the years from minor cracks to big shunts...

[StanS]

Thanks Peter.

From that, it sounds like all spaceframes will crack sooner or later and should be budgeted for ?

I assume the later the model, the less likely it would have cracking (for similar powered cars), or is it a dependant on how the frame was manufactured ?

I suspect it would be difficult to spot cracks unless its on a lift and with good light, and then not easy unless its well developed !

How much approx is a new frame ?

And how many hours is it likely to take to dismantle/rebuild as DIY ?

Thanks

[peterg]

Noooo, not all spaceframes crack but there does seem to be a period of manufacture for Westfields that has had more occurrences than others, it could be worth a call to SteveD, he can also fill you in on likely costs of a new chassis etc

Seight chassis were beefier than others but people being people have sometimes put a LOT more power through them than ever came out of the factory plus quite a few get tracked or raced so lead a harder life than a weekend toy would.

To be honest, I wouldn't worry about it, buy the car on condition rather than age and keep an eye on it and deal with any problems as they arise

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Very few in the scheme of things crack; but then some cars are used very hard on track, some have extremely hard suspension springing and damping, some rose jointed suspension, and quite a few have power figures at least 100 bhp more than the factory cars originally had, and a few even more power than that. Most of these "monsters" still don't suffer from chassis cracks, but it does happen occasionally.A few instances appear to have been triggered by the in-board anti roll bar before it was supplied with an additional bracing bar.

The factory has also steadily improved chassis strength over the years in key areas.

It's something to keep an eye on certainly, but does tend to get blown out of proportion as far as the percentage of cars affected is concerned.

You couldn't jig a car without major strip down, but a geometry setup from one of the specialists with things like the Hunter Alignment rigs will typically pick up on critical misalignment. (As well as making sure the car handles as well as possible!)

As Peter said though, rust is the one to keep an eye on, but as long as you keep on top of it, that is something easily checked and sorted out at home, without specialist gear.

[StanS]

Thanks again ! and to gadgetman

Just trying to enter the ring knowing what I may be letting myself in for !

re: SteveD - already mailed !!

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Seight chassis were beefier than others but people being people have sometimes put a LOT more power through them than ever came out of the factory plus quite a few get tracked or raced so lead a harder life than a weekend toy would.

I suppose that is a thought, might be worth checking when buying, that a V8 engined car is actually an Seight, rather than just a SE/SEi that someone's dropped a V8 in!

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Of course, the simple thing would be to buy Buzz's gorgeous Seight! :yes:

[StanS]

Very tempted by Buzz's, and Chris-v8-euro but due to other stuff happening + winter etc the sensible thing would be to buy in the Spring....

[peterg]

"Buying a Westfield Seight" and "sensible thing to do".... surely that's an oxymoron

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

:laugh: rarely heard in the same sentence that's true.

But no, from a financial point of view, buying a soft top or open car is best done off season, in the winter, when the prices are at their lowest. Selling though, is best done in spring, when the prices are better and "casual" buyers, tempted by a bit of sunny weather come out.

I suppose there is an argument that there may be more selection come spring, but then car's like Buzz's are the sort that often just get pounced on whenever they come up.

[simon besant]

Normally they crack in the diff area but later cars the chassis is doubled here

It can easily be repaired

I am changing the chassis on my sleight at theoment it is a 96 car and the chassis just had enough the front end had broken in 8 places and basically fell off once I got the engine out

I do sprint it and it makes a little more power than a standard car

The new chassis is stronger gauge steel and has a lot more strength in it although I am adding a bit more

As said above as a road car it was fine only when tracked and upgraded did the chassis crack

[StanS]

Thanks for all the input guys.

Having spent several small fortunes on "upgrading" cars over the last 46 years I want to try to get a car that as far as I can tell will not need any/much money spending to "put it right", hence the concerns about the frame.

Maybe try to get as recent a model as possible, if they have higher gauge steel etc. When did they start to use the higher gauge steel ?

<<and it makes a little more power than a standard car>> 5 litre V8. Do I get the whiff of a slight understatement here ?!!!

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

To an extent, it's worth looking at later cars, but it's not the be all and end all; I'd focus more on build quality and condition - ie how well looked after and maintained it is.

An older car that's been really well built and developed, with lots of attention to detail, along with good preventative maintenance will usually be a better bet than a newer car that's just be thrown together according to the manual and left at that. (unless of course you're actually looking for a spannering project).

With kits, the devil is usually in the detail.

[stephenh]

<<and it makes a little more power than a standard car>> 5 litre V8. Do I get the whiff of a slight understatement here ?!!!

You've got it in one! :d