At The End Of My Westy Tether

[Conehead]

I don't know on the verge of just saying sod it and see what happens but the engine has what i would call a serious bottom end rattle at anything above 3k rpm. I may just leave it in and rebuild the 1.3 put that in then get rid for 3k i expect make about 2k loss then try and sell your xflow filfan.

It has so far completely taken over my life and to be fair lost all satisfaction now. This time last year i had two spot on rapid bikes and now i have a knackered car!

I'll probably never get these things back now. Does the wscc do membership refunds think i need all the spare cash i can at the minute

[Norman Verona]

Conehead, I don't think that's a big end. You can usually hear a big end knocking at all revs.

Who rebuilt this engine?

[Conehead]

Don't know what else it can be, it is definitely coming from the bottom of the block as you can clearly identify the noise with a bar.

I BUILT THE ENGINE

[Norman Verona]

OK, so don't keep cursing the engine.

[Conehead]

how did i know that was coming. God I wish i was blessed with several hobby cars and a big house

[Norman Verona]

Don't shoot the messenger. Maybe it was the 5 years apprenticeship that I served that I feel qualified to comment.

Please don't think I'm having a go at you, I'm not. I think it's admirable to have a go. However it's also smart to know when you're out of your depth.

If I was in the UK I would collect your engine rebuild and return it to you but it's a bit difficult when I'm in France.

[alexander72]

hey Conehead, I feel for you buddy. I would just find a new engine and whack that in.... might be most cost effective and get you motoring.... keep at it mate, james

[alexander72]

Echo Norm's point Conehead - nice offer Norm - just a shame geography is against you....

[SteveD]

firstly are you sure the flywheel etc are tight , i had a steel flywheel come loose on my vx westy due to it not being balanced correctly ,this sounded like a big end knock ,then after i fitted a new flywheel number 4 bearing spun ,i pessume due to the vibration off the loose flywheel ,anyway check everything ,not all big ends knock on tickover some just knock as the revs build ,but they do have a very distinctive sound

[jeff oakley]

Cone head, where do you live in Wales? I get over to Cardiff regularly to one of my branches so if it is not too far from there I would come and have a listen if you like. The crossflow is one of the most simple engines but as Norm say's a big end usually rattles what ever the revs applied. I really feel for you as clearly whatever happens now your love for the car is nil and I think the end is inevitable. You say about rebuilding the 1.3 engine and banging that in, thats okay if you are sure it is engine related, it will probably cost a good bit to rebuild the engine so why not just take that off the price you are prepared to accept or sell all the bits you have and just move it on?

[carbon-nv]

Sorry to hear that the troubles continue

It's sounds like you've been tackling everything alone. I know how it's so easy to just go round in circles and not see the wood for the trees somtimes and assuming all sorts. A fresh pair of eyes (and ears) is often what you really need, so take up Jeff's kind offer and pull in as much help as you can.

It may turn out to be a smaller job than you first thought, so don't reach for the sledgehammer just yet!

[Conehead]

Bit late the blocks out in pieces. Big end seems fine. Timing chain tensioner seems well worn but only had 10mm max slack in chain, that would not be a lot in motorcycle terms. Can see any thing amiss. joys continue

[chazpowerslide]

Hi Conehead.

I think that you have got to the stage where you really need to STOP and take stock of what you are doing, what you are trying to achieve, what you want out of the car.

Then you need to question weather or not you have the skills to achieve the above.

Then go from there.

Please do not take this the wrong way but how many of the issues have you built into the car with the work that you have done?

If I'm honest I have been guilty of this on many occasions as have many others.

We think that we have the skills to get the job done and then when it all goes tits up we realise that maybe we could have and should have done a better job.

I have been involved with Westfields for over ten years now and built or re-built 5 to date.

In the Cambs area alone I have worked on as many as 10 to 15 members cars over the years and IMHE most of the issues that the cars have had (one way or another) are the results of what has been done to them/how they have been built and less to do with how they have been treated.

It only needs a few small things to be overlooked due to not being methodical with the thought process in terms of planning the work and how the work is carried out to cause the car to break down.

You mention that the flywheel you had fitted looked like it had had a repaired tooth.

If that was the case why did you not pick up on this at the time of fitting?

Why was it only discovered as a suspected cause/symptom of another issue?

A critical component like this needs checking thoroughly.

This is an example of a "built in fault"

Part of the repair process should always a good thorough diagnosis of the cause of the failure and the path of the failure.

Fitting random new parts in order to "cure" a fault often leads to new parts being fitted that are not required and new parts failing prematurely.

It's an expensive way to sort a problem out.

An example of this is a story I have read about a WW2 Lancaster bomber.

This particular plane was renown on the squadron for lacking the power to get to cruse altitude and was regularly aborted from missions by it's crews due to engine trouble.

The number three engine wore prematurely and was replaced more often than the other three (the aircraft had 4 new engines fitted in the no3 position)

After the 6th mission abort the squadron CO ordered a full investigation of the aircraft as the aircrew were still taking risks (taking off fully armed/fueled) but not reaching the targets and the aborted missions were not being counted towards the magic 30.

It transpired that a large bit of swarf (presumably left over from manufacture) was partially blocking the oil feed line to the engine from the oil cooler.

New oil cooler fitted, issues solved.

I'm not having a go mate but your thought, diagnosis and decision making process seems to be a bit hap hazard.

You say you built the engine, but then you say the cam chain tensioner is worn.

Is it new and has worn, if so why?

Was it re-used and maybe should have not been?

You got a new starter to replace one that needed a modification to fit it.

Has the modification caused/contributed the failure of the original, if a new one is fitted without corrective action the new one will fail too.

Rather than focus on fixing the issue focus on the cause of the issue and fix that as well as fit the new bits.

You have a crank oil seal leak, who fitted the seal?

Was it fitted properly?

If it's fails in toto I guess not.

It's not the engines fault.

I don't wish to preach, the Xflow may be a "simple" engine but building a good solid unit takes a lot of understanding of what you are doing as well as skill set to do the work well.

A crossflow build is no different to the build of a modern 16 valver, the processes are no different, you don't cut corners because it's a "simple" unit.

Every component needs checking, the unit should be dry built to check the tolerances then torn down issues corrected and re-dry built again and so on until it's spot on.

New components can be unsuitable, there has been so many different incarnations and tuning modifications to the crossflow part choice is hardly straightforward on occasions particularly if the engine is not standard.

You are talking about getting shot of the car but your posts on here have really not helped the saleability or resale value.

Sort through the issues methodically, get help with what you do not fully understand.

You'll spend less and the car will be reliable.

Please don't take the above the wrong way, it's ment to help honestly.

Chaz.

[Bob Green]

Hello Conehead

Please take this as good advice and not as a pop against you.

Without placing Chazpowerslide's full "Quote" in, that is exactly what I was going to type this morning but I think this is the most important part.

Hi Conehead.

I think that you have got to the stage where you really need to STOP and take stock of what you are doing, what you are trying to achieve, what you want out of the car.

Then you need to question whether or not you have the skills to achieve the above.

Again, without trying to belittle you (and I would never do that), by reading your posts it is abundantly clear you do not have the correct skills relating to engine diagnoses, strip down and assembly. Many folk have offered good advice with a member (Jeff Oakley, I think) suggesting to actually visit you and assist. That is an extremely generous offer, one you should think about carefully. It is a pity I do not live closer to you as I would have made the same offer.

I think I read in one of your posts whereupon you suggested you purchased the car without thinking it through. I believe your engine building procedures follow the same train of though.

I have rebuilt more Cross-Flow engines than enough with the end result being no oil/water leaks, no rattles/bangs and ultimate reliability. These are an excellent engine, OK a little dated now but do you realise how many Cross-Flow engines were and still are used in serious competition? Trust me, more than you think!

So, STOP in your tracks now, do not carry out any further repairs and reflect on your skills and what ultimately you wish to achieve. I think your suggestion of selling the car is the wrong way to go as it will not cost much to rebuild your engine correctly and then you will have a good Westfield.

Please take everything I have typed (and I include other Boardroom users advice) as sound advice and not a side-swipe. Ultimately, I want to hear from you when your car is running good and you are enjoying it.

[alexander72]

Conehead, wotcha mate - HI-Tech Motorsport in Brum did my cross-flow for previous owner. I'd reccomend them if you need a specialist. HTH, James