Fangi0 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 On the news today and about time too. Staggering sense of duty and courage of WW2 bomber crews in spite of catastrophic losses, which they were fully aware of. Churchill shunned them after the war and it has taken this long for the Bomber Command contribution to be marked formerly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Verona Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Agree that the crews deserve recognition for their courage and bravery. However Bomber Command will always have a stigma for bombing civilians. Of course, another point is that they tied up several divisions keeping them from the Eastern front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooch Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Ahh...the old Dresden argument. Don't forget that Churchill authorised these raids then promptly distanced himself, letting Arthur Harris take the heat. This memorial is well overdue. nearly 56, 000 lost their lives in the most dangerous activity after working on U Boats. I'll be going, with our whole extended family, later in the year to pay our respects and to honour my uncle Dennis who completed two full tours of duty (Wellingtons and Stirlings with 149 Sqn and later Stirling IVs with 299 Sqn) earned a DFC and kept all but one of his crew alive. His bravery inspired me to my 26 years of RAF service. Could handle 40 tons of bomber at 20 years old yet he had so much excitement, he never even learned to drive a car. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Colonial Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 The memorial strikes the right tone - tired, bleary-eyed, brave, naive young men coming home from a mission, thrust into performing a terrible deed not of their choosing, not necessarily comprehending or wishing to consider the terrible results of their ordered actions, all while knowing their chances of survival were slim. The memorial is as much to their bravery and dedication as it is to the senseless futility of war, and was long overdue. If you ever get the chance to visit the American War Cemetary in Cambridge, for all the USAAF crew who perished in WWII, take it. I defy anyone not to be moved to tears by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hurdsfield - Joint Manchester AO Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Respect, it's a pity it's taken so long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Verona Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Mooch, it's not just the Dresden raid. Harris believed he could bomb Germany into submission. Churchill (according to his "The Second World War"), didn't but let him carry on as we had the planes and the crews. The point is that RAF (and later USA) bombing was supposed to cripple the German industrial effort. Bombing wasn't as accurate as that and it soon became "area" bombing which, of course bombed civilians. I've read lots of history books on the subject (not for this reason but the whole period 1914-1945). I don't have to make a judgement. All I can do is agree that's the memorial is long past its due date. However the reason is probably due to the uneasiness the British establishment feel about the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff oakley Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 There has been several groups who did not recieve the regocnition they deserved like the Bevin Boy's, but this was the worst. As Norn say's the arguments over the morals of wheter they were right or wrong doing what they did will go on. What is without doubt is they suffered terrible losses doing what they were ordered to do. War is awful and and acts like sinking the Lusitania, or nuking Hiroshema are justthe tip of the atrocities but these were young ordinary boys doing extraordinary things and this memorial is long overdue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangi0 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Fantastic. Respect and gratitude are due in bucket loads. I'll be going, with our whole extended family, later in the year to pay our respects and to honour my uncle Dennis who completed two full tours of duty (Wellingtons and Stirlings with 149 Sqn and later Stirling IVs with 299 Sqn) earned a DFC and kept all but one of his crew alive. His bravery inspired me to my 26 years of RAF service. Could handle 40 tons of bomber at 20 years old yet he had so much excitement, he never even learned to drive a car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterg Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I wish my late Dad was still around to see this, he lost so many friends during his time at 102 Sqadron, their motto written on a sign over the bar at the station was It's Suicide but it's Fun... they lost 80% of their crews in the first half of 1943 I'll be going up there later this year to pay my respects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chazpowerslide Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Long overdue IMHO. A different breed from a different generation. Heros the lot of them. Chaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangi0 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 On a lighter note. When I was a little lad my best friend and I spent many many hours reenacting the dams raids with our Lancaster airfix kits. My friend Hugh's dad was ex Bomber Command squadron leader and took a dim view of us starting our bombing runs just outside his study and frequently came out and tore us off a strip after a particularly savage raid. I thought he was a scary dark character but my father, also ex RAF, explained he had a lot of respect for him and that he had lost many friends in the war and I would do well not to antagonise him. A while back, in an idle moment I looked up Tam Morrison RAF on tinternet and to my astonishment this is what I found. Read it through - you could not make this up, these men were incredible!!!! http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/54/a3886554.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTR2Turbo Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Long overdue IMHO. A different breed from a different generation. Heros the lot of them. Chaz Agree - a scandal that they were not properly recognised at the time of their immense bravery and sacrifice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooch Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Mooch, it's not just the Dresden raid. Harris believed he could bomb Germany into submission. Churchill (according to his "The Second World War"), didn't but let him carry on as we had the planes and the crews. The point is that RAF (and later USA) bombing was supposed to cripple the German industrial effort. Bombing wasn't as accurate as that and it soon became "area" bombing which, of course bombed civilians. I've read lots of history books on the subject (not for this reason but the whole period 1914-1945). I don't have to make a judgement. All I can do is agree that's the memorial is long past its due date. However the reason is probably due to the uneasiness the British establishment feel about the subject. You are absolutely right, Norman - the perils of trying to sum it all up in a sentence! In the early days, bomber command hit absolutely nothing they set out to target because navigation and bomb sights were in their infancy and the raids got bigger and bigger to compensate and increase the chances of actually hitting the right target. Harris was convinced he'd win the war by bombing alone, just as early strategists were convinced that 'the bomber would always get through'. Tragically, both were wrong, but the courage it must have taken to climb into a Lancaster, Halifax or Stirling knowing that the chances of returning were so limited fills me with awe and the utmost respect. Most of these young aircrew just carried on in the belief that it wouldn't happen to them. Outside the regular forces who volunteer to serve, I wonder what the reaction would be if we had to mobilise to the same extent and ask the youth of today to take the same risk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Verona Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I totally agree that the crews were also part of the "few". But I disagree that our youth of today wouldn't do the same. Evidence? Look at those brave young men who go out on patrol day after day in Afghanistan. As you say, Harris was wrong in thinking he could bomb the Germans into submission, evidence is it had the opposite effect by making the civilian population more resolved to resist. However, it is true that Bomber Command kept many German Army divisions tied up in air defence. Up to the last few months it also tied up many squadrons of the Luftwaffe. In the last months there were few German planes left to put up a credible defence. These army and Luftwaffe units would have been defending the Eastern flank against the Red Army. Stalin had been calling for a "second front" since 1942 and, though not recognised at the time, Bomber Command provided it. To summarise the memorial is long overdue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooch Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 But I disagree that our youth of today wouldn't do the same. Evidence? Look at those brave young men who go out on patrol day after day in Afghanistan. For sure - that's why I said outside the regular forces that volunteer to serve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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