Norman Verona Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 If he hasn't done anything illegal then where's the problem? Could it be the Government who allow such schemes to be legal? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid life crisis Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 IMHO Carr didn't create the loophole, he merely exploited a HMRC approved scheme. I wonder how many of Mr Cameron's friends take advantage of the same loophole. I am sure the press are working on that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Green Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Hi Norm That is exactly what I was thinking. If it is a "llegal loophole", as one of the Government compulsive liars declared, it is avoidance, not evasion, so I cannot see an issue. To be frank, I wish I could do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab (bombero) Reid Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 From a govt point of view he's (his accountant) has simply highlighted a loophole in how the govt collects its taxes from people who earn large sums of money in this country. From a public point of view, he's a bit of a ****** as much of his material mocks the public (we love self effacing comedy) and public services .. How does he think public services are financed? Oh, that's right, from taxes we pay! He happily takes our hard earned money ie in ticket sales, pockets it, doesn't contribute to the health of this country, then takes the p*** out of it! What he's doing may be legit but all tax evaders who enjoy the securities and comforts of this country should pay their way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Verona Posted June 23, 2012 Author Share Posted June 23, 2012 Bombero, Of course. But, is he breaking the law? No. Does he make you laugh or only titter? Should the government take the blame for these so called "loopholes"? Yes Will they? No Will they keep on using emotive language like "immoral"? Yes Will they close this loophole? Yes Will they allow others to be created? yes. Don't seem to have the problem in France. The tax return is 4 pages long. Page 1 is your name and address and status. Page 2 is your incomes from earnings and investments page 3 is your pensions page 4 is .... can't remember. I asked a Frenchman about "loopholes" like putting money off shore. He didn't understand what I was talking about. It's simple, if you're paid money you declare it and pay the tax. Tax reliefs are built into the rates applied to your circumstances. No loopholes and only avoidance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreigM Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 The problem was he publicly ridiculed others for doing the same as he was doing. Illegal - no, hypocritical, yes, morally wrong - yes. I've no problem with a bit of tax mitigation, but to reduce it to a level which was below the lowest earners was simply taking the p***. I do think this country over-taxes significantly, but that **** was taking the p*** out of all other hardworking taxpayers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Colonial Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Was it illegal? No. Was it ill advised for a comedian? Yes. Is it ill advised and a case of pot calling the kettle black for Cameron to comment on it? Definitely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Verona Posted June 23, 2012 Author Share Posted June 23, 2012 I think we're all jealous. He did nothing wrong. He makes jokes about people who do what he was doing. But, don't all comedians do that? Of course he shouldn't have done it, but that's the governments fault for allowing it. I used to think all benefit claimants were spongers. I now know better and see that it's the system that allows them to do it that's at fault. Just change the tax system so there are no loopholes. You get paid money-you pay tax on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s2rrr Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Any self employed or in some cases employed person could use tax efficient methods to save some money, but those systems are slowly being closed and new ones replacing them. As long as its not illegal which this case certainly wasn't, then the onus of responsibility is with those people who created or left the loophole open, the legislators. Jimmy Carr or his accountant only exercised their right to use that loophole while it exists. Can't see what the fuss is about, would suggest that his financial dealings as long as they are legal are nothing to do with us and how did the information get into the public domain is more a question I would ask. That is a breach of confidentiality, unless he himself self declared it. These systems have been exercised for years by the rich and famous whereas us oiks on PAYE just keep paying. May I suggest that the vast majority of certain political group representatives whom all appear to be rather wealthy probably also use these or similar loopholes to save paying there dues. The only issue really is that they can and we can't. MP's expenses, double dipping with two houses paid for by us the list is long and expensive, have they really sorted that out as its all quiet over there. Hypocrits the lot of them. As for taxing pensions, just don't get me started. Bob ---- overly taxed in all areas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreigM Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 He did nothing wrong. Right and Wrong are not necessarily defined by the laws of the land. Something being legal doesn't necessarily make it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danp07 Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I think Cameron has put himself in a tricky position naming just him, As he then seemed to back off when questioned about the latest ass kisser & buddy to the royal family Garry Barlow, who is doing exactly the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s2rrr Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Agreed, two wrongs don't make a right, what's that saying about those who have done no wrong let them throw the first stone. If we were all perfect someone would develop a scam for ripping us off some way. We haven't obtained the world wide reputation as rip off Britain for nothing. Is that something to be proud of, no. We have managed to culturally screw up this marvellous country of ours even Ed Milliband aka Grommet or was it Wallace managed to admit that the good old labour party had made a mistake with immigration well what a revelation, it took a grannie being ******ged off by Gordon to make them open there eyes I believe. Maybe the politicians should listen to those average punters who have none political views but want to see our country re-established and not F***ed up further. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff oakley Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Carr has broken no laws and really is demonstrating what happenes when you have smart people trying to come up with tax efficent schemes for those in the know to use. Morally there is no argument, he should pay at least the going rate, legally no charge to answer. In my opinion we should have a flat rate tax for everyone of say 20% and then allow only expenses for self employed to be deductable. It is easier to administer and would stop people feeling the need to avoid tax. Already I have had people refuse promotion and the increased wage because it would take them into the next tax bracket and they would be worse off loosing tax credits etc, how is that motivating for people? It is so simple that HMRC will never agree because it woulkd lead to all those employed by them not being needed in the same volumes. If they insist on continuing with the most complicated taxation system in the world, then do waht the USA do when they catch hackers that beat the system, they employ them, why not do the same with the people who see the loopholes and exploit them at present, set them on to stop them in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8grunt Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Seemingly Maxine Carr is annoyed with him for bringing the name in to disrepute! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M444TTB Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 He fully deserves a shoeing for dishing it out himself, which wasn't unwarranted it has to be said. Being illegal and morally wrong (by most people's standards) are two different things. Cheating on my wife wouldn't be illegal but it would make me a scumbag. Edit: Suggestions that it's the fault of the system that people can cheat the majority either by avoiding paying or taking what they are not entitled to is ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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