Hammy Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I've just viewed a certain track day organisers web site and noticed what looks like a couple of £10 scrappers , that turned up to a recent event and are "featured" on the site. Personal opinion but not the best advertising for anyone thinking of taking their 911 along me thinks. I'm all in favour of cheapness, being a tight wad myself, and have seen some well prepared cheap cars at events, but worry if the owners of such cars as those shown on the site would have the conviction to the rules and be concerned about not scratching their cars. What do you think and is there an answer ? Discuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreigM Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I think there is an issue that track days are shifting to people buying "£999" track day specials and not giving a toss about what they drive - its not their driving that is the issue, but more the oil/coolant leaks and engine/gearbox failures which are common as the cars simply aren't up to the job. The last two easytrack days I've been to at Oulton have been very bad for this, lots of fluids spilt on the track, lots of stoppages due to mechanical failure which left fluids down - I'm seeing less and less "decent" cars at track days and more bangers. I think there should possibly be some standards enforced, that the car should have an MoT or if a dedicated track car it should be put through some sort of scrutineering for basics like the battery being secure, no fluid leaks, brake lights working etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I suppose the worry is that it could, in extreme, lead to charges imposed for dropping fluids/track clean up/track closures. It's a double edged sword, you can see the appeal given the cost of hiring the circuits if they can fill up more places by appealing to the £999 brigade. But constant stoppages will see them loosing customers who are paying, but getting poor track time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Verona Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 More to the point, I'm in my well prepared, MOT'd Westie (or caterham) and come up behind one of these bangers. The rusty chassis finally decides it's had enough and the front wheel with the suspension and brakes decide to go sunbathing. The rest of the car slews across the track in front of me, I hit it and career of into the pit wall. I'm rushed to hospital and announced DOA. Who's at fault. The driver of an unfit car or the track day organiser who let him (or her) drive it on track. ed to add that I suppose the answer is to have club organised track days where we would only allow fir cars (and drivers) on track. Not enough members? Get together with other clubs who run like-minded cars. Shouldn't be too difficult, appoint a liaison officer and away we go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s2rrr Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 M'lud may I refer you to the waiver the deceased signed when booking in. Fully agree Norman, I've seen far to many none maintained cars flying around for my liking, hence my reluctance to go on one. I really want to as well which is the annoying part. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab (bombero) Reid Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 As a track day virgin, one of the concerns holding me back is this very thing. If you've a red misty eyed driver hurtling about a track, who's to say that they're none too concerned about who they 'tap' in the heat of the moment. I'm not saying it's a demolition derby out there by any means, but wee altercations do happen and if it's not the other person's pride'n'joy/well prepped track car/daily driver they're driving, then who's to say what might happen..?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matta Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 As a track day virgin, one of the concerns holding me back is this very thing. If you've a red misty eyed driver hurtling about a track, who's to say that they're none too concerned about who they 'tap' in the heat of the moment. I'm not saying it's a demolition derby out there by any means, but wee altercations do happen and if it's not the other person's pride'n'joy/well prepped track car/daily driver they're driving, then who's to say what might happen..?! Rab - Is this you trying to get out of the Knockhill day already........? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab (bombero) Reid Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Rab - Is this you trying to get out of the Knockhill day already........? no, but it's a good reason really! I'm sure it'll be ticketyboo .. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FILFAN Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Most events do not allow overtaking on bends only straights which reduces the chance of colision some what. I have also found that Colin who runs javelin can be quite strict on car safety as I found out at blyton. I had a small oil leak and I mean 1 or two drops but because it was wet it looked alot worse. He then made it his personal mission to ruin my day even after it was sorted. So I'm sure if you reported a dodgy vehicle to him he would come down on if like a ton of bricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreigM Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 To be fair, I've NEVER seen car on car contact at a track day (and I've been doing them for 10 years now) - seen plenty of spins/accidents but you can tell the cars which are going to be trouble from the way they look and/or are driven and just give yourself a bit of room round about them and wait until a nice long straight and whizz past them (in most cases they are much slower than a westie...). I've also never lost grip because of fluids spilt by another participant (whereas I have lost grip on the public roads lots of times due to oil/diesel spills). I'd still maintain that driving on a track day is many many times safer than hooning on a public road. As for the Knockhill day I'm sure it will be completely incident free.....after all they are a bunch of poorly fitted fibreglass tubs held together with ebay's finest parts, fitted by the finest amateur mechanics with hand-me-down tools, setup with information gained from strangers on the internet and with mostly track virgin drivers....what could possibly go wrong 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M444TTB Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 People that haven't been to a track day or two ways worry about someone else hitting them. I've only seen it happen at Castle Combe action days and even then only a handful of times in 10+ years. The people that annoy me most on track days are the idiots that are deliberately drifting either because they are w*****s or are simply incapable of listening to the briefing. If anyone is going to cause a spot of car on car action it will be them. Budget car or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustCallMeMac Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Fingers crossed, the trackday organisers I've been with, in my Westfield at least, run what seems to be a very tight ship and don't put up with any nonsense, whether that be in terms of driving performance or the mechanical standard of the vehicle being used, at least at first glance. I undertand the OP's point completely though but think we have to remain objective. I've been on track with plenty of 'bangers,' most of which have remained mechanically sound and have usually, sometimes surprisingly, been driven with common sense and etiquette, on the basis that the drivers are usually very young and don't really want to bin it, or are a little older and understanding and appreciative of the limits of the machinery and that most around them are going faster anyway. Everyone has to start somewhere after all and learning in something, which costs a few hundred quid and has been cheaply modified with the basics, usually related to handling, is a great way to start up and brilliant fun. In my own experience, it's more often some of those who own the very expensive track toys who are the biggest PITA, where the very thought that their £60k plus motor can't lap at twice the speed of a humble tin-top or 'built-for-peanuts' (by comparison), kit car. Ego plays its part and where money is usually no object if things go wrong, the limits of ability are exceeded. In addition, if bought from the showroom, there is often a lack of awareness that some modifications are likely required to meet the demands of even non-competitive trackday work. I've seen metal against concrete, wheels knee deep in gravel, fluids dumped and engines blown, because of below-par oil management, insufficient cooling and inadequate suspension, brakes and tyres, which are OTT for fast road, but far from up to it after a few hard laps on a hot Summer's day. A couple of years ago I took my modified Impreza to Silverstone and there was a seriously modified Audi TTRS whose driver was utterly mental. Driving very close up behind, lights on, overtaking / undertaking on bends. Just pure aggression and it was almost impossible not to get wound up, which in itself was dangerous. I wasn't the only one who complained about him and a few words were exchanged in the paddock area but nothing got done and I found out later that he and a few of his 'minted' pals, went on more or less every trackday organised for this particular company, home and abroad and so, as a 'gravy train,' was deemed more or less untouchable. I haven't been back with the organiser since. Regardless, those of us who take our cars on track are aware of the risks and there's no guarantee that we won't make a mistake or be responsible for leaving something slippy on track ourselves, but that is the nature of the beast. My advice is go for it and enjoy it. After all, there's just as much chance of having an issue on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Verona Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Have got this wrong? I thought the thread started off talking about the recent introduction of sub standard bangers on trck days. The OP wasn't talking about club organised days with 100% Westfield or what has happened over the past 10 years. This thread is about the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleggy the Spyder Man Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 has to be said in my experience of a dozen or so track days I have seen all varieties of cars stranded at the side of the track - there was a right selection of all sorts at Whittering last weekend out of the group of 5 of us '7' style cars two broke down on the track, one of them had to be recovered and towed home - one had a hose blow towards the end of the day and was un fixable, another had a mild water leak all cars were IMO well prepped so you pays your money and takes ya chance I would add that the more expensive track days particularly at longer quicker circuits are fairly devoid of your so called bangers - on the flip side you will side by side with some occasionally clueless half wit in a 200000 super car I will take my chance with the bangers :-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flash1 Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Well said that man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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