Seriously Whats Going On With Climate Change ?

[V8grunt]

It's getting like Pistonheads with the number of deniers on here

I don't know if what we are seeing now is climate change or normal variance but surely it's common sense that if we pump billions of tons of fumes (of whatever kind) into the air, it's going to have some effect?

Mt St Helena, when that volcano went bang! put more Co2 in to the atmosphere than man has in the last 10,000 years!

TAX THE VOLCANO'S.

[Mooch]

Manmade climate change does not exist - it's just a fabulous bandwagon for politicians, taxmen and scientists. None of whom will knock it if they can get votes/money from it whilst appearing to care about the planet.

Read Christopher Booker's 'Scared to Death' - it explains the scare story process excellently. Manmade climate change is simply the biggest scare story ever told.

Agreed. Christopher Booker is one of the few journalists who understand the almighty con we are being subjected to - he still has a column in the Sunday Torygraph which is always facinating to read, and as Stuart has pointed out, his book written with Dr Richard North explains beautifully what is going on. Also explains other similar scares desined to make governments seem necessary and important. What did ever happen to Bird Flu?

That said, I think that SteveH is right too, it's only sensible to manage finite resources more sensibly, but while the US and the BRIC countries expand at the way they are any effort we make is spitting in the wind. Shutting down our entire economy in the UK would throw us back to the stone age and save less that 3% of CO2 emissions globally. Blair's lot signed us up to the most expensive piece of legislation in history (Billions and Billions per year) yet only one or two MPs had he guts to oppose.

It's about making profits (wind farm subsidies are a case in point) Academics getting funding (money for research supporting the theory is easier to get than money to prove it's all boloney - virtually impossible to get) and raising tax through carbon trading etc. (why do you think Al Gore got involved?) Just about every frame of Gore's propaganda film 'An Inconvenient Truth' has been debunked as nonsense (see polar bear on ice above), but especially the famous 'hockey stick' graph. You can but your family birthdays into the calculation and still get the same result.

Follow the money.

[Dibby]

It's not just the CO2, it's the rate we're digging minerals and fuel out of the ground on a glbal scale, the resulting pollution washing into the surrounding rivers and the people having to bathe and drink it all because rich westerners want an ipad, the acidification of the oceans and destruction of coral reefs, the retreat of the ice caps and the melting of permafrost around the arctic circle, deforestation to grow our delicious steaks leaving the land a wasteland instead of , it's not just CFCs or carbon footprint, it's the combination of the human impact on the planet having a much larger effect than any other animal that has lived here. Still, it won't be my great grand kids sorting it all out when we're long gone.

We all want cheap steak, ipads and flatscreen TVs full of far flung minerals mined in conditions you wouldn't want your kids anywhere near. This pretty much sums it up

[Stuart]

It's getting like Pistonheads with the number of deniers on here

I don't know if what we are seeing now is climate change or normal variance but surely it's common sense that if we pump billions of tons of fumes (of whatever kind) into the air, it's going to have some effect?

Have posted this before I think - also recall someone knocked it down.

From Ian Rutherford Plimer (born 12 February 1946), who is an Australian geologist, academic and businessman, and professor of mining geology at the University of Adelaide:

The volcanic eruption in Iceland , since its first spewing of volcanic ash has, in just FOUR DAYS, NEGATED EVERY SINGLE

EFFORT you have made in the past five years to control CO2 emissions on our planet – all of you.

Of course you know about this evil carbon dioxide that we are trying to suppress – it’s that vital chemical compound that every plant requires to live and grow, and to synthesize into oxygen for us humans, and all animal life.

I know, it’s very disheartening to realize that all of the carbon emission savings you have accomplished while suffering the inconvenience and expense of: driving Prius hybrids, buying fabric grocery bags, sitting up till midnight to finish your kid’s “The Green Revolution” science project, throwing out all of your non-green cleaning supplies, using only two squares of toilet paper, putting a brick in your toilet tank reservoir, selling your SUV and speedboat, vacationing at home instead of abroad, nearly getting hit every day on your bicycle, replacing all of your 50 cents light bulbs with $10.00 light bulbs . .. . well, all of those things you have done have all gone down the tubes in just four days.

The volcanic ash emitted into the Earth’s atmosphere in just four days – yes - FOUR DAYS ONLY by that volcano in Iceland , has totally erased every single effort you have made to reduce the evil beast, carbon. And there are around 200 active volcanoes on the planet spewing out this crud any one time - EVERY DAY.

I don’t really want to rain on your parade too much, but I should mention that when the volcano Mt Pinatubo erupted in the Philippines in 1991, it spewed out more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere than the entire human race had emitted in its entire YEARS on earth. Yes folks, Mt Pinatubo was active for over one year – think about it.

Of course I shouldn’t spoil this touchy-feely tree-hugging moment and mention the effect of solar and cosmic activity and the well-recognized 800-year global heating and cooling cycle, which keep happening, despite our completely insignificant efforts to affect climate change.

And I do wish I had a silver lining to this volcanic ash cloud but the fact of the matter is that the bush fire season across the western USA and Australia this year alone will negate your efforts to reduce carbon in our world for the next two to three years. And it happens every year.

Just remember that your government just tried to impose a whopping carbon tax on you on the basis of the bogus “human-caused” climate change scenario.

Hey, isn’t it interesting how they don’t mention “Global Warming” any more, but just “Climate Change” – you know why? It’s because the planet has COOLED by 0.7 degrees in the past century and these global warming bull artists got caught with their pants down.

And just keep in mind that you might yet have an Emissions Trading Scheme - that whopping new tax – imposed on you, that will achieve absolutely nothing except make you poorer. It won’t stop any volcanoes from erupting, that’s for sure.

[Dibby]

Sorry Stuart but 5 seconds on google and you can 'prove' exactly the oposite by copying and pasting someone else's research:

http://news.discovery.com/earth/volcanoes-co2-people-emissions-climate-110627.html

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11638-climate-myths-human-co2-emissions-are-too-tiny-to-matter.html

Who funded the research? The hippies or the oil giants? Who carried it out? What were they trying to prove in the first place?

Thing is, nobody knows for sure, volcanoes have been going on since the dawn of time, the humans haven't. Will we destroy the planet so badly it can't support any humans at all in 1000 years time? Will we nip a potential exetinction level event in the bud? Will we all carry on just fine? Will we ever curb the exponential birth rate? Nobody knows for sure.

I'm doing my part to destroy the planet by needlessly chewing fossil fuels in my car too. Maybe not entirely necessary to throw polystyrene pips and crisp bags out over the side as I drive about but it looks pretty and does it's little bit to destroy the place, every little helps

[Stuart]

OK will give you that one Dibby. But you still can't control anything by taxing and red-taping mature economies for the 'sake of the environment' to the extent that tiger economies eat them alive. That's where we are now and the sooner all these bandwagon jumpers wake up and smell the coffee the better. As I said earlier, if you are skint then all notion of 'the environment' goes out of the window - you just want to survive. It's an affluent disease and we are no longer as affluent as we were. Do you think that the Greeks give a sh*t about being green at the mo?

Furthermore, 1.4bn Chinese = what, about 500m families? And they all want a car. And who are we to say to them "sorry but you can't have what we've got". They will all have a car and very soon. Whatever the west does its dwarfed by what these huge growing economies don't and the western bureacracy allows them to walk all over us in global economic terms. It's plainly obvious that the model just doesn't fly. QED it's a bandwagon/scare story.

BTW I do my bit for the environment - I have worked in the recycling industry for almost 30 years. I'm a director now and, as such, I do get involved with politicians and mandarins here and in Brussels. I know exactly what their motives are and it ain't saving the planet believe you me.

[Norman Verona]

One thing is certain, it gives our Governments the reason to tax all of us in a way we can't complain.

So, who funds all the research into climate change and the causes? Governments.

The oil will not run out, it will too expensive to get out of the planet when most of it is under the ocean. It's no good arguing what the source of CO2 emissions are. I read that 98% of the CO2 emission is from the oceans. Then someone said it wasn't. Wasn't what? 98% or from oceans at all.

Of course we shouldn't waste anything, oil, water, factory made goods - anything. But to tax Europe on CO2 emissions whilst the USA, China and India use the stuff like it won't be needed next year is stupid. As we already agreed that politicians are stupid what else do you expect.

I'm bored now. So I think I'll go and start all 8 fossil fueled engines I have here just for fun.

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

I have suspected for some time that the real reason for all the furore surrounding global warming, climate change (man-mad or not) is not anything to do with weather or climate. That varies enough for statistics to be supplied that will prove anything and the climate has always varied and always will. No, the 'western' governments fear that their economies are built on very shaky foundations which rely on energy supplies from unstable regimes in the middle east, or on the Russians. This situation has to be adressed but the various populaces will not heed advice that we will have to watch our consumption because those nasty Arabs or Russians will (do) have us by the 'nads. Some of us remember Sheikh Yamani in the seventies to know what chaos can be wreaked (wrought?) by one man's hold on the oil tap. So, they invent a reason that can be supported by 'science', terrify the Greens, and sooner or later, if you say it often enough (repeat after me "dangerous climate change"), the masses will believe that they simply must cut back on energy use or the polar bears will all die. Make it expensive to boot and you have an unstoppable propaganda wagon. Fear of the unknown has always been used by governments; this is nothing new. All IMHO, of course.

[hilux]

It's getting like Pistonheads with the number of deniers on here

I don't know if what we are seeing now is climate change or normal variance but surely it's common sense that if we pump billions of tons of fumes (of whatever kind) into the air, it's going to have some effect?

I know I`ve not had a Westyfor a while so sorry for butting in......................

Personally I think climate change advocates have an admirable opinion but are unbelievably naive in blaming what we do as the total contemporary problem.

Probably the quickest and largest expansion of pollutants we have seen happened during WW2 and the industrial expansion of the 50`s and 60`s that followed (look up London Smog as an example) yet during that period global temperatures fell. What CO2 we now put into the atmosphere is relatively insignificant when taken against natural output from the earth.

What is concerning is certinly needless pollution and the diminuition of reserves and the lack of successive governments creating a proper UK energy policy using Nuclear. What also makes our "green" efforts fruitless is that expanding and developing countries want personal transport and cooling and are using refridgerants such as R12 because it is cheap and very efficient so each fridge we pay to dispose of they are building 1000`s daily - same for cars.

America and germany have stopped developing wind power because of the long term massive maintenance costs and for every Gigawatt you generate by wind you need the equivalent in power stations sitting in reserve - for what happens when the wind stops? - madness.

I was told the other day the polar ice cap is shrinking worryingly however its still bigger than it was some 70 - 80 years ago and it actually grew during massive industrial expansion by the western world.

Withdraws gracefully....................

PS: where do all the direct and stealth green taxes go? To make us greener? Dont think so, they simply subsidise the fat B8st*rds in Westminster and civil servic pensions!

Edited May 16, 2012 by hilux

[SteveH]

Probably the quickest and largest expansion of pollutants we have seen happened during WW2 and the industrial expansion of the 50`s and 60`s that followed (look up London Smog as an example) yet during that period global temperatures fell. What CO2 we now put into the atmosphere is relatively insignificant when taken against natural output from the earth.

That may have been one of the fastest expansions fired by war and post-war prosperity in the west but look now at the countries that had virtually no industrial sector back then and see how they are looking now.

The world population has more than tripled between the start of the war and now and a greater proportion than ever is driving cars, using electricity and working in industry. The total volumes of pollution that are being emitted now are bound to swamp anything that has happened in the past and if we are looking at global warming it's the totals that count.

We can go back to the industrial revolution in Britain and would probably see a greater local expansion in emissions than at any other time but with a UK population then of only about 20 million compared to the current world population of over 7 billion you've got to think the effects now will have potential to be more severe.......

[alexander72]

mmmmm..... interesting debate here. Many good points well made and well argued. As a former environmental underwriter doing pollution insurance (i kid ye not) turned pro-tree climber/planter/arborist geek who spends the year chasing the winter around the world to work on deciduous tree's all i have noticed is that there appears no pattern to any climatic event be it here or in Sydney/Hungary/Romania/LA..... it rains - i get wet..... it's sunny - i get a red face....... seriously, we are on this earth for such a short time that compared to geological time the chance of any correlation to human activity seems almost impossible to comprehend. Possibly cos i'm spending all day trying not to cut my head off!!!