Nikos_bugs Posted April 8, 2012 Author Share Posted April 8, 2012 Our latest spring rate combinations were: 200(?) back - 220 front, 250lbs back - 300 front, 250 back - 330 (60kg) front, and we are about to test on the track some 40-60kg on the front on our next visit (it is not a fixed spring rate, but a kind of progressive one, which is slightly softer on the initial suspension travel/compression). On my last visit on the track the rear ARB broke (didn't care cause we were about to soften it for the next session) and the rear end became more grippy. Here in Greece we have about 8-10 known Westfields (Megablade, Megabird, Megabusa, Pinto, Opel XE turbo, Sigma (Duratec 1.6) and mine) and some Caterhams (classic 1400cc to R500 K-series and SV) but most of those do not visit the track often. We also have some 7 clones as MK Indy and locosts. Considering our enjoyment at the track unfortunately our clubsport society face difficulties here too, which reduce our visits on the tracks and eliminate the serious track events (due to cost/profits balance). Terry thank for the reminding about cracks the diff "box". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGTIPS Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Kaleimera file mou ti kaneis? ( Hi my friend how are you?) Yep I am a Greek leaved in the UK for 24 years............. well I am British now. Very nice story and a great video to go with. So many times I promise to my self I make that journey. England to Greece ( Patra where I come from)......... you been to Patra on your way to Athens from Italy. I grow up in Athens ( Near Monastiraki ). Next time I know that I am coming up to Athens Il send you a pm to see if we can have a meet and see the Westie in flesh. Gia sou Niko. Panos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Everall Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 It seems to me that your rear springs are too strong compared to the front so it will induce oversteer The standard factory setting is 400lbs front and 200 rear for the Duratec Using your existing springs you could use the 200 rears and the 330 fronts but it would not be expensive to buy new fronts. It will improve the handling dramatically so long as your sort out the ARBs and refit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffC Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 How do you find the car with the 20/54s and 16/53s front, in terms of absolute amount of traction (and not only as balance/behavior) ? Its hard to say, ive been out of the seat for a good 3 years and only used the car on track once on a circuit I didnt know,however it felt good and wasnt at all back end happy but I wasnt pushing as hard as you! would like to try 22/54/20/54 I think that would be good. interesting you had a 3.3 in that vid,my car is 220bhp duratec 6 speed box 3.9 diff I was struggling with top speed at an airfield sat on the limiter in 6th at times. I might try and source one for my car as its used more for road now . my csr 260 run a 3.3 and that was great but i was concerned running a 3.3 with less power but yours looks fast still. ref spring rates on the westfield I raced I run spring rates a lot higher than what you had , cant remember the exact poundage but 450 front and 350 rears comes to mind this was on a bec busa running the same slicks as you are, I found the the stiffer I went with spring rates the quicker the car went It seemed to work the slicks better , downside was it was horrible on the road! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenh Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Terry, I dont like to disagree with you, because you know far more about Westfields than m e, but as you know my car was a factory built duratec, early 2008 vintage, and my springs (as measured by Procomp) are 285 lbs front and 180 rear. The fronts are the original factory ones, the back were replaced by Procomp. IIRC the original back ones were about 185 or 190lb measured. We only replaced them because they were a bit short so were going close to coil bound on full bump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikos_bugs Posted April 8, 2012 Author Share Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) Καλημέρα Πάνο! (good morning Panos) I will be glad to meet you next time you're coming to Greece! ) About the springs: I have read several opinions regarding the spring rates for factory ones and Nitrons (400lbs front, 300rear ?) so I couldn't rely in them :/ What make us use these spring rates is the weight distribution of the car. I don't know if we have put the engine far "back" while rebuilding the car, but with the driver in the car the rear end is heavier than the front. (what about yours guys? What is the weight distribution on your cars?) We are thinking to move the engine a little bit to the front (2-3cm = about an inch) to altered the distribution,but we would like to try suspension tuning first, to see if we can have a good result. Another thing that you should have in mind is the difference between Greek and UK tracks. I don't have driven on a UK circuit (I only had a Silverstone experience ones) but here in Greece the tarmac on the tracks had become enough slippy so I dont know if large spring rates would help :/ If you have any other informations regarding spring rates on trackday/racing Westfields (Duratec ones) Please share them. I might try a set up like the one you guys suggest. Is that right what I have mentioned above for Nitrons rates? Edited April 8, 2012 by Nikos_bugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Everall Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Steve Thats interesting because my Sport 2000S definatealy had 400/200 springs and I checked the spec with factory The BECs tend to run 275/250 fronts with 180 rear due to differnt engine weight and balance. I also know that several people have run slightly higher spring rates to stiffen the car a little ( different drivers like different handling) Rich Kerrs car with the vauxhall XE improved dramatically when he bought my 400/200 springs!!!!!!! He even won the speed series that year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikos_bugs Posted April 8, 2012 Author Share Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) Steve Thats interesting because my Sport 2000S definatealy had 400/200 springs and I checked the spec with factory The BECs tend to run 275/250 fronts with 180 rear due to differnt engine weight and balance. I also know that several people have run slightly higher spring rates to stiffen the car a little ( different drivers like different handling) Rich Kerrs car with the vauxhall XE improved dramatically when he bought my 400/200 springs!!!!!!! He even won the speed series that year. The reason that we stiffen the rear end is -as said before- firstly the weight distribution of my car and secondly that the extra torque of Duratec and using slick tyres, tend to dip a lot the rear end, under acceleration. I will try for sure your suggestion for 330/200 or 400/200. From what have you guys know, what is the weight distribution on cars like mine? Mine tends to have a little bit more weight on the back, even WITHOUT the driver in its seat. :/ Edited April 8, 2012 by Nikos_bugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Everall Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 My Duratec was 300bhp with 212 ft lbs of torque running full slicks and it worked on the 400/200 springs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenh Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Terry,I think the difference may be between the 2000S and the Sport 2000, then Terry. Mine wasn't an "S", although it's present spec is similar, it started life as a "standard" Aerosport (ie Sport 2000 but without a windscreen, and no carpets). Nikos, You can stop the rear end dipping too much on hard acceleration by fitting stiffer rear springs, but if you overdo it it will cause increased wheel spin as I understand it. I've gone the other way, with relatively soft rear springs, but stiff rear dampers. Just going on what I was advised to do, I dont claim to be an expert in such matters. One thing you dont want is too short a spring, so it goes coil bound on full bump. Mine are longer than originally fitted, and we went for a larger diameter spring, from 1.9" to 2.25" diameter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Jones Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 I don't think changing spring rates alone is the right choice to make. For sprinting IMO its better to use the ARBs to control corner balance then you can use springs for other uses. On the front you want to get heat in quickly and high spring rates are good for this with slicks, the rears don't need this as much so lower spring rates can help with traction. Where you can get the tyres warmed up up before then I suspect higher rates all around (as JeffC says) is probably better as there is less natural in-balance between front & rear but that won't work on anything but a very smooth surface and would be nasty on cold tyres. In the video I think I see you starting with slight oversteer and it getting worse in the second lap, I am guessing this is because your fronts are gaining heat & grip. From the video setup I would strengthen the front ARB to point it would initially understeer but then balance as the tyres warmed. If that works OK then try higher front spring rates while reducing the front ARB strength, this should allow you to bring the front tyres up to temperature quicker while keeping balance. Finally try to reduce rear springs to improve traction while compensating with extra strength on the rear ARB to keep balance. This is kind of how I have my car setup for sprint work but you would never guess or be able to calculate the spring rates needed, they are a long way off what is considered normal, but it normally feels balanced from the first corner to last, at least at the speeds I am able to pedal it and over short distances... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SootySport Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Nice story and vids. Didn't realise there were petrolheads in Greece. Seems a waste other 7 owners there don't make the most of your trackdays and sprints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikos_bugs Posted April 17, 2012 Author Share Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) Nice story and vids. Didn't realise there were petrolheads in Greece. Seems a waste other 7 owners there don't make the most of your trackdays and sprints. thanks! I think there are Petrolheads in every single corner of the earth, as soon as they have some wheels with an internal combustion engine Edited April 17, 2012 by Nikos_bugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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