Turning A Perfectly Good Zetec Into A Firebreathing S2000 Build Thread

[Norman Verona]

The "stuff" made by Honda is not a silicone based product. It does set hard, many gasket cements do. Hermatite sets hard. However they do not bond one metal to the other.

 

The problem is, as I see it, is that we have people here who are not experienced in these matters. Overuse of "liquid gasket" can have detrimental consequences if it gets into the oil system. 

 

I know how to use a silicone based jointing compound, a very thin bead on one surface so it doesn't have enough to be squeezed out into the engine. 

 

Let's not argue over this but remember that our comments are being read by others who may not have the experience we have.

[Speed Freak]

hummm ok, so basically, I may as well stick with the liquid gasket- but use it sparingly and be sure to spread it around the OUTSIDE edge, so as to not lose it down the inside when the two surfaces are bolted together-

do we all concur?

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

As a non Honda person, before anyone says anything!

 

There are many variations of sealant/liquid gasket, intended for slightly different jobs and in addition, many different qualities.

 

I've got a tube in the garage, of the Vauxhall badged and supplied sealant to be used on the XE sump and rebearing housing. Some of these areas are notoriously difficult to seal on the XE, with many rebuilt engine owners complaining of leaks and weeps. If you do a very thorough search on here, (and VX specific forums) you will find the names and brands of two maybe three sealants that work extremely well, and have never had the issues. Or, you just buy the Vauxhall part numbered sealant from a dealer, Vauxhall specialist or Ebay and again, know that (when applied right) you won't have an issue.

 

You can of course spend time experimenting and find another one that works; if you know what to look for, there's bound to be one. Trouble is, if you don't get it right first time, you end up redoing it.

 

You pays your money and makes your choice.

[Speed Freak]

tbh the liquid gasket Ive been told to use by r.e.d  worked a treat-never had a weap etc- but obviously with finding some in the oil, either its not the right stuff-or the engine builder put too much on, or too near the inside edge of engine-

everything Ive found on the net about Honda seal shows a silicone based gasket-so will be the same.. I wouldn't swap my silicone based for another, as Im happy with the sealing qualities of mine-

should anyone find anything of a hard setting Honda seal please let me know

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Application method is usually just as important as choice of material!

 

(Though, if you're old and canny, you can sometimes make up for inadequacies in one with improvements in the other)

[Norman Verona]

I thought the Honda cement wasn't silicone based. Silicone won't dry or go hard, (which is why it's good for exhaust joints).

 

However, if it does stay liquid be very careful and put a thin, equal bead down the center to outside of the flange to be sealed.

 

If these faces are aluminium surely Hylomar is best. It was developed by Rolls Royce for their face to face joints.

 

 

 

Tim, if the engine builder applied the cement and it's in the engine then he's responsible for the damage. If one bit comes out when he's cleaning the pump or galleries then he pays. 

[Speed Freak]

yeh, Im not sure how that will all "pan out" (excuse the pun)

theres no guarantee with the build, as he didn't refit with all new parts-theoretically I could have replaced pistons and lots of other parts by the last rebuild.. plus he didn't fit the head afterwards, just the block and pan. hes quite a reasonable guy though, not at all a cowboy. Im sure we'll come to some sort of arrangement, either way.

would just be nice to be able to fix the engine for a relatively reasonable price, and to have it fixed for good (so to speak). Don't want to be looking at the oil pressure gauge every time I drive it waiting for the next time , having said that, thank god Ive got one! apparently the Honda low oil pressure light (which Ive installed) only comes on when pressure drops below something like 18psi-damn lot of good thatll do when your hitting 8-9000revs!

 

anyone got any ideas to my earlier question about the amount of oil in my catch tank?

[Norman Verona]

Could be blow pass through the rings. 

 

Wait until you've got it stripped. I suspect it'll be obvious.

 

The builder has a duty of care. It doesn't matter what he didn't do as long as he didn't tell you he wanted to do something and you refused.

[Speed Freak]

well got some news back today...

The pan came off to inspect the bottom end- all looks lovely- obviously there was the odd mini bits of metal on the pan bottom, but the end caps/bearings look perfik!

 the problem-

The pump has some damage- he opened it up and the cylinders where the rotors are scored.

Spoken to Titan, they want me to send the pump back, and see either if its a simple replacement, or whether perhaps they can rebore and fit oversize rotors or not.

when I get the oil pump back I'll take a picture.

The engine will now be stripped totally- but by the looks of it, there is no damage to the engine-at least the bottom end, anyway...

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Sort of good news then, on the whole.

 

I agree, it's always worrying when you're not entirely sure of a cause.

 

Fingers crossed for you!

[Speed Freak]

right then-latest update...

engine has been stripped completely- no metal or damage has been done to the engine at all! which was good news-

the pump has been damaged tho-and Ive taken some pictures of the 1st compartment of it, but the others look the same- scoring lines to the cylinder walls.

 

the engine builder is taking the mick a bit with the time quoter tho- so got some interesting times ahead!

oh and hes nicely showed me the clutch and that's had it as well!!!! so there goes another 400quid ish! bl**dy hell-having a cracking time of it

[SteveD]

tim cant see how those bits have not got in the engine ,you said there were bits in the sump and tank didnt you

[Speed Freak]

yeh, in theory get into the engine, as they were in the oil that was drained- but luckily there is NO wear to the end caps or bearings, (seen them myself, and theyre as good as new) and NO signs of damage to cylinder walls or anything- I had a good feeling that nothing had found its way up the engine, as the vtec solenoid has a mesh protector, and apparently this is the tell tale sign of whether metal's found its way around the engine or not- I didn't have any there.

the engine will be cleaned in the machine, and he said he'll squirt petrol through the oil passages to make sure-

now its just a case of sorting out the pump- its a titan pump by the sound of it- so don't know what the crack will be...- if Im lucky they might meet me half way on a replacement- r.e.d have mentioned the possibility of slightly reboring the cylinders and fitting an oversize rotor-

[Speed Freak]

latest update!

Its taken a while I know, but the engine was rebuilt over 3 months ago, and Ive only just gotten around to fitting it...

I bought myself a couple of days and set to work. the engine was in, and everything was going well until it came to fitting the pump. Titan had pretty much replaced everything on the old pump, but had fitted too many "ports?" on the outward side, and also fitted a -10 fitting on the scavenge side instead of the old -12 one!

So I was going crazy as you might imagine, as I was near enough ready to fill the beast up with oil, and coolant, and see her run.

Anyway after a phone call with titan, they sent me a blanking plate for the one port, and a -12 fitting for the scavenge- it all came in 2 days, and was fitted the same day. Oil in, coolant in, checked over all vacuum lines, turned the d.s.pump by hand until oil had made its way around all the hoses, and started the beast!

All went really well- I was on edge waiting for something major to happen, or perhaps to hear funny noises- but nothing!

Ive had to fiddle with the oil pressure, as it wasn't quite high enough, and then it was too high- but now I seem to have got it just right.

Had a slight oil leak, as one of the goodridge fittings had somehow managed to become loose enough to weep.

But so far so good. Engine sounds great, Id forgotten how it sounded

Next up is the handling... still not been sorted, as I changed the rear rosejoints over the winter time, and haven't re-done the geo since- but Im questioning whether I should change out all the bushes while Im at it, as should the problem not now be cured, I will end up having to have another geo setup done later on.

I did find a westfield specialist near Frankfurt (about 1hr15mins away), but the want mega bucks, and although I need it doing, Im slightly cautious of spending 500euros on a geo, before I know the problems- if they want to change out the bushes, then itll end up costing a fortune, and Id rather do the work myself.... hence the thought of changing them upfront. (bearing in mind they only cost about 60pounds for the whole lot).

well Im happy that the cars up and running again; just hope its for good this time.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Fingers crossed for you Tim.