Speed Series Target Times 2012

[Terry Everall]

Painful memories due to a mixture of single seater oil and wet track. Thats my excuse anyway!

regards

terry

[Mid life crisis]

How simple it used to be

When the fastest driver in each class gained the most points towards the overall championship :yes:

Progress :down:

[davidgh]

How simple it used to be

When the fastest driver in each class gained the most points towards the overall championship :yes:

Progress :down:

Oh, you mean the good old days, when you could set a new circuit record but still get only 16 SS points because you were alone in your SS class.

Or when you could get anything between 12 and 17 points for the same drive, dependent only on whether Andy Rushworth turn up at the event.

Meritocracy ruled . . . . . . . . . . . . I don't think.

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

_{Well it does seem a bit overly complex now. There was nothing wrong with last years regs that wouldnt have sorted themselves out with time}

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

Oh, you mean the good old days, when you could set a new circuit record but still get only 16 SS points because you were alone in your SS class.

Or when you could get anything between 12 and 17 points for the same drive, dependent only on whether Andy Rushworth turn up at the event.

Meritocracy ruled . . . . . . . . . . . . I don't think.

No, i'm sure he wants to go back to 2003 or 04 when you got 10 points for winning you class if 2 people turned up and 16 points if 3 people turned up.

Unfortunatley there is no perfect system, they all have fault's. The 2012 system aims to try and get away from runaway 102 points being won too easily, and therefore by neccesity appears complex. I am sure that you are right John it would have sorted itself out, but only after another year or 2 of easy points for some classes at some venues.

If you look on the other side, getting 100 points easily may well be a good result this year.

But don;t lose track of why we do it, it's about having fun and enjoying the competition above all else, can you beat the other driver in your class on the day.

[pete g]

should be a very close one this year :t-up: even closer than last years

[Mid life crisis]

No, i'm sure he wants to go back to 2003 or 04 when you got 10 points for winning you class if 2 people turned up and 16 points if 3 people turned up.

Unfortunatley there is no perfect system, they all have fault's. The 2012 system aims to try and get away from runaway 102 points being won too easily, and therefore by neccesity appears complex. I am sure that you are right John it would have sorted itself out, but only after another year or 2 of easy points for some classes at some venues.

If you look on the other side, getting 100 points easily may well be a good result this year.

But don;t lose track of why we do it, it's about having fun and enjoying the competition above all else, can you beat the other driver in your class on the day.

No just a level playing field Nick.

Only classes that benefit from this daft scoring system is A,B,G and H.

A & B if they are genuine entry level classes, should be roadgoing cars with windscreens, H pattern stock gearboxes and exclude LSD / ATB's and straight cut boxes. Oh and by the way this does exclude my present car. This would then give an owner of a standard car a sporting chance, without the need for a big cheque book.

Not that I will be entering the SS anytime soon, along with many ex competitors while these crass rules prevail.

Enough meaningless spreadsheets at work !

[Mark (smokey mow)]

Well I'm completely lost but, sort of following I'm sure the SSOT are doing their best with the difficult job of giving us a fair system and providing parity amongst the different classes to ensure everyone stands an equal chance of being able to compete towards the top prize and I commend them for their hard work

I only competed under the pre-target time points system for one year and I could certainly see the appeal of its simplicity but I can also see that it would only work fairly if there was a reasonable turnout of drivers across all the classes at every event. A quick glance down the list of target times unfortunately shows how badly turned out certain classes were last year at some events compared to other more popular classes and how a sole entrant in that class may have unfairly benefitted without target times.

Personally I'm just in it for the craic, a good result would be a bonus

[XTR2Turbo]

Not that I will be entering the SS anytime soon, along with many ex competitors while these crass rules prevail.

strongly worded

are there really so many competitors upset?

Feels like the organisers are between a rock and a hard place but do a cracking job and have no vested interest other than a level playing field..

[tcc21racing]

Please can some one change target times to Class Record Times! as I think it is easy to loose sight that these times are out right records and are not going to be beaten year after year.

I hope this system works as it seams to make sense, tho at first I was a little confused and upset that the some of the Class E times had been superseded.

I just hope it works out as personal to keep changing the format each year is a little off putting for me, and I know my Dad is also feels the same and has not decided whether to enter the SpeedSeries this year on this basis.

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

A & B if they are genuine entry level classes, should be roadgoing cars with windscreens, H pattern stock gearboxes and exclude LSD / ATB's and straight cut boxes. Oh and by the way this does exclude my present car. This would then give an owner of a standard car a sporting chance, without the need for a big cheque book.

It would seem that you have not actually read this years or last year regulations as that is exactly what we have created (except for LSD, but that's a good idea).

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

Please can some one change target times to Class Record Times! as I think it is easy to loose sight that these times are out right records and are not going to be beaten year after year.

I hope this system works as it seams to make sense, tho at first I was a little confused and upset that the some of the Class E times had been superseded.

I just hope it works out as personal to keep changing the format each year is a little off putting for me, and I know my Dad is also feels the same and has not decided whether to enter the SpeedSeries this year on this basis.

We would like to change to Class Record Times or similar, but unfortunatley it doesn't work with our MSA Regs wording.

Yes, it takes a while to get your mind around and the decision to make this change was not taken lightly, but after very extensive discusion and debate amongst the SSOT. We think it's the right one, but as with all these things will only know at the end of the year.

[mark.anson]

No just a level playing field Nick.

.A & B if they are genuine entry level classes, should be roadgoing cars with windscreens, H pattern stock gearboxes and exclude LSD / ATB's and straight cut boxes. Oh and by the way this does exclude my present car. This would then give an owner of a standard car a sporting chance, without the need for a big cheque book.

Only classes that benefit from this daft scoring system is A,B,G and H.

.

b*****k*

Steve if you think that this system will benefit class G then you are very much mistaken. In what way will it advantage class G ( or the others for that matter).?

Last season I had absolutley no chance of scoring 102 points at any venue last year but I still had a very enjoyable close battle with Tim Nunn throughout the year.

To demonstate by way of an example of what we are trying to do I will use the class G Silverstone time as an example.

In 2010 both myself and Barney competed at Silverstone and Barney won setting a very competative time on a hot sunny day. It was also the first time we had competed at the new Stowe circuit.

In 2011 the Speed Series again went to Silverstone and found that the circuit had changed in that the chicane had moved further along the straight. The net effect of this was that the circuit was considerably faster, and several 102 pointers were scored quite easily, however no one from class G entered Silverstone in 2011.

This meant a driver from class G could enter in 2012 with an easy 102 points on offer. In class G, if I was the only class G competitor, this would almost guarantee me the class win before the season had really got going. As a result the class G Silverstone time was considered "soft" and therefore made a 100 pointer for 2012.

You will also notice that class A & B now have to have a full screen, 1A tyres, and an H pattern syncromesh gearbox ! How more basic do we have to make it?

By excluding ATBs/LSDs would have the danger of putting off people entering as many have already fitted these already.

The reason the class stucture was changed in the first place was that the SSOT realised that in some classes, upgraditis was getting out of hand and a LOT of money was being spent on paddle shifts traction control, etc etc. The idea was to still have an entry level class for folk with a pretty much standard car, and a class for those that had carried out some upgrades like a dogbox and 1B tyres but other than that still a road going car.

We could of course introduce the Flintstone class, where you remove the engine altogether and put your feet through the floor like Fred Flintstone, but I dont think it would be that popular.......but you never know.

Mark

[XTR2Turbo]

We could of course introduce the Flintstone class, where you remove the engine altogether and put your feet through the floor like Fred Flintstone, but I dont think it would be that popular.......but you never know.

Mark

My car could enter that class tomorrow

[SteveD]

No just a level playing field Nick.

Only classes that benefit from this daft scoring system is A,B,G and H.

A & B if they are genuine entry level classes, should be roadgoing cars with windscreens, H pattern stock gearboxes and exclude LSD / ATB's and straight cut boxes. Oh and by the way this does exclude my present car. This would then give an owner of a standard car a sporting chance, without the need for a big cheque book.

Not that I will be entering the SS anytime soon, along with many ex competitors while these crass rules prevail.

Enough meaningless spreadsheets at work !

if your not entering the ss any time soon how does it effect you in any way what the regs are , the other year you were moaning about the regs and your still moaning about them now ,you need to concentrate on the series you are entering not on a series your not entering ,i know one thing a scoring system would not stop me or others i know entering a championship, it just seems a convienient excuse for you to have a pop at the speed series

no scoring system is perfect no matter what is used , the team are doing there best to get a level playing field and are obviously going to upset people in doing so as they cant please everyone no matter how hard they try , i see people who have genuine queries and have voiced them on here and by email etc the team have listened and ammended /made changes if needs be or explained the situation ,but to make comments when is does not concern you if your not doing the ss is just gay .some people are just in the dark ages and dont like change, my advice is turn up drive as fast as you can and enjoy yourself ,go home with a smile on your face

myself and marshall enter the events at venues we enjoy to drive at ,and we allways have a good time and go home happy, some people need to remember why they do the sport ,and thats to enjoy it and not to get blinded by pot hunting ,winning is not everything its about enjoyment