SteveD Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 gary speed found hanged in his home http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news....ad.html seemed ok and in form on football focus yesterday Quote
Captain Colonial Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 Always tragic when the talented do that. Very sad news indeed. Quote
lippydave Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 Shame, he was seemingly one of footie's good guys.... Even sadder for his kids.... Rip... Quote
jeff oakley Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 We can only guess it was depression but if it is it just shows how someone with so much can be gripped by this illness. Very sad! Quote
SteveD Posted November 27, 2011 Author Posted November 27, 2011 read on another forum there is specualtion it could be sexual strangling ,he was on the phone to robbie savage last night laughing and joking and according to savage he was fine Quote
echoz Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 Always tragic when the talented do that. Very sad news indeed. Tragic when anyone does that, no disrespect intended to anyone, but it annoys me that when a famous person kills themselves it's big headline news, being announced on the news before such things as soldiers being killed whilst serving their country, or in fact over the 1000's of people who unfortunately take their lives every year. What about his wife, as LippyD said, his children, suicide is the most selfish act known imnshfo... having seen first hand what it does to people realted, the blame they put themselves through, the hurt it causes them, the sleepless nights... I don't follow football so am not really aware of him other than i rmemeber seeing hjim play for newcastle when i was younger, and by all accounts he was the manager of wales? this would lead me to assume he was far from poor/homeless etc etc, there are many people who i assume with 100% positivity to have lead harder lives than his, and they keep going, and would do so much to be granted a life that he most likely lead... cowardice is a word that spins in my head whenever the word suicide is mentioned... makes me so very angry... Quote
jeff oakley Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 Always tragic when the talented do that. Very sad news indeed. Tragic when anyone does that, no disrespect intended to anyone, but it annoys me that when a famous person kills themselves it's big headline news, being announced on the news before such things as soldiers being killed whilst serving their country, or in fact over the 1000's of people who unfortunately take their lives every year. What about his wife, as LippyD said, his children, suicide is the most selfish act known imnshfo... having seen first hand what it does to people realted, the blame they put themselves through, the hurt it causes them, the sleepless nights... I don't follow football so am not really aware of him other than i rmemeber seeing hjim play for newcastle when i was younger, and by all accounts he was the manager of wales? this would lead me to assume he was far from poor/homeless etc etc, there are many people who i assume with 100% positivity to have lead harder lives than his, and they keep going, and would do so much to be granted a life that he most likely lead... cowardice is a word that spins in my head whenever the word suicide is mentioned... makes me so very angry... The thing is that those who take their own life do not think normally. They are not cowards they are ill and unable to see any other way. You are correct in the fact that this makes headline news, soliders are going to die unfortunately if they are in a war zone, and many others will take their own life, but here was a man with everything to live for, which is the news item. If as Steved says it turns out to be linked to a sexual act the sympathy will not be as widespread. What ever has happened, those left behind are the victims as much as the deceased. Quote
echoz Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 That is fair comment Jeff, in no way am i saying it is not sad, death in any shape or form is sad, because it causes pain to someone somewhere. I do however believe that unless you are diagnosed with a mental illness of some description (justy for example, say autism etc) then you have a healthy "normal" acting brain, which means basically your decisions lead you to become a state of mind to consider committing suicide. There are people far worse off that do not commit suicide, to me suicide is basically making a decision to punish everyone else for your own demons, his kids will forever have to grow up knowing their dad killed himself, he doesn't have to live with that. Again strictly imho doing that to your children is on the same par as beating them... you are gifted as a human being as being able to make choices in life, you always have a choice, unless you have a disease/illness that mentally incapacitates you, you have a choice, depression is a man made illness, as a baby you are not depressed. you become depressed through different factors that occur in your life, you can change your path in life, and many many people do everyday, many of whom were probably in darker places than mr Speed. I say this with no knowledge of reasons as to why he did it, but i stand solidly by my statements. I dont mean to cause any offence by this, merely debating my thoughts. If it was a result of strange sexual fantasies then the only feeling i will feel is disgust that someone could let that fantasy ultimatley lead to the ruining of his loved ones lives.... Quote
lippydave Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 That is fair comment Jeff, in no way am i saying it is not sad, death in any shape or form is sad, because it causes pain to someone somewhere. I do however believe that unless you are diagnosed with a mental illness of some description (justy for example, say autism etc) then you have a healthy "normal" acting brain, which means basically your decisions lead you to become a state of mind to consider committing suicide. There are people far worse off that do not commit suicide, to me suicide is basically making a decision to punish everyone else for your own demons, his kids will forever have to grow up knowing their dad killed himself, he doesn't have to live with that. Again strictly imho doing that to your children is on the same par as beating them... you are gifted as a human being as being able to make choices in life, you always have a choice, unless you have a disease/illness that mentally incapacitates you, you have a choice, depression is a man made illness, as a baby you are not depressed. you become depressed through different factors that occur in your life, you can change your path in life, and many many people do everyday, many of whom were probably in darker places than mr Speed. I say this with no knowledge of reasons as to why he did it, but i stand solidly by my statements. I dont mean to cause any offence by this, merely debating my thoughts. If it was a result of strange sexual fantasies then the only feeling i will feel is disgust that someone could let that fantasy ultimatley lead to the ruining of his loved ones lives.... Echoz I see entirely where you are coming from, but hey accidents do happen, people make mistakes, sometimes there's no consequence, other times there's a terrible price to pay..... If someone has lived an exemplary life, been a good and decent person, treated others with respect and dignity, it could be seen as a little unfair to judge their entire life by an unfortunate misguided incident that led to their death..... Not that I'm religious in any way but the Bible does have some occasional bits of wisdom in it..... "Judge not lest you be judged yourself" or "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.." We all feck up now and then, luckily most of us are fortunate that most times there are no life or death issues at stake, and secondly we aren't in the full glare of the media... Quote
nikpro Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 That is fair comment Jeff, in no way am i saying it is not sad, death in any shape or form is sad, because it causes pain to someone somewhere. I do however believe that unless you are diagnosed with a mental illness of some description (justy for example, say autism etc) then you have a healthy "normal" acting brain, which means basically your decisions lead you to become a state of mind to consider committing suicide. There are people far worse off that do not commit suicide, to me suicide is basically making a decision to punish everyone else for your own demons, his kids will forever have to grow up knowing their dad killed himself, he doesn't have to live with that. Again strictly imho doing that to your children is on the same par as beating them... you are gifted as a human being as being able to make choices in life, you always have a choice, unless you have a disease/illness that mentally incapacitates you, you have a choice, depression is a man made illness, as a baby you are not depressed. you become depressed through different factors that occur in your life, you can change your path in life, and many many people do everyday, many of whom were probably in darker places than mr Speed. I say this with no knowledge of reasons as to why he did it, but i stand solidly by my statements. I dont mean to cause any offence by this, merely debating my thoughts. If it was a result of strange sexual fantasies then the only feeling i will feel is disgust that someone could let that fantasy ultimatley lead to the ruining of his loved ones lives.... You are young - one day you will grow up and realise that depression is a very real illness as is any mental illness. Quote
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 Echoz, I prey you never get to fall prey to clinical depression. It's real iis a really bad place to be and it distorts your EVERY though process, it can lead to some very twisted logic where by you can actually believe you're doing you're loved ones a favour by checking out. For those with it really bad you WILL NOT move past it without outside help, trouble is your thought process is so back to front you may not even be able to recognise you need the help. Had it twice in my life, thank God never got so far under that thought of suicide ever really took hold. Though the second time I was lucky the symptoms were spotted and I got treatment. Cognative Therapy if I remember the name rightly, 'cause even unwell I was apparently to cynical and awkward to just see a shrink So many shades of grey in this life, it's rarely as black and white as you think when you're younger. Quote
Nick PC Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 That is fair comment Jeff, in no way am i saying it is not sad, death in any shape or form is sad, because it causes pain to someone somewhere. I do however believe that unless you are diagnosed with a mental illness of some description (justy for example, say autism etc) then you have a healthy "normal" acting brain, which means basically your decisions lead you to become a state of mind to consider committing suicide. There are people far worse off that do not commit suicide, to me suicide is basically making a decision to punish everyone else for your own demons, his kids will forever have to grow up knowing their dad killed himself, he doesn't have to live with that. Again strictly imho doing that to your children is on the same par as beating them... you are gifted as a human being as being able to make choices in life, you always have a choice, unless you have a disease/illness that mentally incapacitates you, you have a choice, depression is a man made illness, as a baby you are not depressed. you become depressed through different factors that occur in your life, you can change your path in life, and many many people do everyday, many of whom were probably in darker places than mr Speed. I say this with no knowledge of reasons as to why he did it, but i stand solidly by my statements. I dont mean to cause any offence by this, merely debating my thoughts. If it was a result of strange sexual fantasies then the only feeling i will feel is disgust that someone could let that fantasy ultimatley lead to the ruining of his loved ones lives.... I do not with to cause offence but it is this sort of shallow understanding that makes people hide away and not admit to what they need help for. Many cases of suicide arise when people have lost control, even very rational people. As for the comments about depression these are not worth commenting on, maybe read what Stan Collimore has had to say this weekend and try and understand. What we are lucky now is that there is a greater understanding of the subject by doctors and people are treated rather than being locked away and forgotten Quote
echoz Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 Much appreciate the respected retorts not just grilling me for somewhat bulshy remarks in all fairness, I guess in a way I'm just very bitter towards the whole subject, I have a lot to learn in many aspects of life, and do not claim to be wise at all i apoligise if my comments did seem shallow naive or just downright ignorant, I'm sure they were in many ways... Quote
D7PNY Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 I would erm..echo some of your comments echoz. Yes perhaps some are slightly 'bulshy' as you put it but you are not completely in the wrong. Every persons situation is different and I for one am not a great believer in the 'depression' label. I'm not for a second suggesting that the problem doesnt exist, I do however think that it is something that is bandied about all to often in todays society sadly. I agree with others above that it is a very dark area and people who genuinely have mental problems must be given the support they require. I may have taken echoz comments the wrong way but I 'think' the point he was getting at was those who use the word depression too readily these days. I have first hand experience of someone with 'issues' and they used to hide behind their (in their case) so called illness using it to excuse their behaviour which made everything worse. The point I'm trying to make is that there will never be a right answer as every case is different. You do immediately struggle to sympathise with someone who apparently has it all but none of us know what was going on behind the scenes Also, at the risk of being controversial, in my opinion commiting suicide IS cowardly. The act itself may require an element of courage to follow through but to take your own life and avoid dealing with the consequences of that, and indeed the problem in the first place can be seen no other way in my eyes. I think this is only compounded when you are leaving loved ones behind (especially children) as others have said above. In no way are my comments intended to offend anyone so apologies if they do. I am well known for saying things the wrong way! Dave Quote
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