How do you deal with budget creep?

[Tonsko]

So I originally set myself a budget of 8K, and then revised it downwards to ~5K.

The ones I was after around that price seem to have gone, or there are few things that I don't like the look of.

I have since seen one with a lot of power, looks mint, but on the market for around 7K - affordable, but a bit more!

So, being aware that something has to give somewhere - you're never going to tick every box, as there will have to be a compromise.

While the obvious answer is, "Only spend what you want to!", is it worth edging that budget a little to make sure that the car is a good one, or settling for something that might, or might not be, mechanically inferior? I've read that thread from that poor chap who bought one for around 5.5K and then the engine blew up not three days later! At least he had it from a dealer, so there was comeback.

I reckon this is an eternal battle with yourself!

[Matt Seabrook]

Only you can answer this one. Spend what you are happy to spend on a car. If you cant get the car you want for the money you are happy to spend look at something different. The right Westfield may be impossible to find for the money you have. Tiger, Robin Hood, Locost will all be cheaper than a Westfield and some will have good spec for the money. If you must have a Westfield and nothing is coming up in your price range and to be honest your at entry level at 5K you will have to up your budget. At 8k there will be a lot of very nice cars about. There are a couple of cars around at the moment that look to be a little on the high side but most are cheep for what they are.

[Wile E. Coyote]

It is a difficult one to solve - problem is that once you start looking around finding the right car can end up occupying most of your thoughts with the temptation to push the budget being hard to resist when you find that car.

In the end, the approach I used was to try to classify things in one of two ways: must haves and nice to haves.

As a general rule, things that would be expensive or inconvenient to change later went in the former, more cosmetic items (or things I'd probably end up changing anyway to suit my tastes) went in the latter.

Bottom line though budget is something of a personal thing and, as Matt point out, only really you can decide how much you want to spend...

[Tonsko]

Was given a passenger ride in a ~140BHP westie yesterday. I was, I must admit, a little disappointed - the acceleration wasn't as electric as I was expecting. I was ready to be absolutely blown away. (That is not to say I DIDN'T have a big grin on my face. The wind, the closeness to the ground, the smell of oil and petrol, the arm on the side, the sun, the feeling etc. etc. etc. You know what I mean, I'm sure )

Now - for you more seasoned peeps, I have 3 theories:

It had Weber 46s (although I can't find these in an online shop anywhere) on it. Reading up about how these things work, I dimly understand it thus: the bigger the diameter, the bigger the venturi plate you can fit in, which leads to bigger power. You get the bigger power at the top end of the rev range, meaning that you lose lower-down torque.

Personally I think I would prefer a smaller carb so that I don't have to fight the gears continually to keep it in the zone.

2) There were 2 people in it. I guess this extra weight can make a big difference to the performance, as weight is everything.

3)I'm used to moderately decent acceleration due to buzzing about in my (mildly tuned) Golf R32 for the last 4 years. This last, not so much, as she's a bit of a lardy girl, it must be said.

Am I totally off-base or half right?

The reason I ask this is that this then might feed into the 'must have' req'ts (Really like that idea by the way, I might nick it ) - 'Must have more than ~140bhp to be fun'.

[Rab (bombero) Reid]

Hi

It is a question that has many many answers to it!!    However, I'll start by going through the posted ones:

1) Webers are generally either 40s or 45s and yes, you're kinda right with your rule of thumb BUT the carbs aren't everyting albeit, carbs set up properly should provide plenty smiles per hour    

2) Weight, or more importantly power-to-weight is an element but only to the track day user. I like the power-to-weight that my car develops but I'm not going to chuck out my passenger seat because of it    You wouldn't lose so much that you'd notice if you were out for a blat with your mate. Consideration must also be given to driver's ability/limitation .. none of us are the Stig, even if we all think we are behind the wheel!  

3) You cannot compare (many have tried) a modern turbocharged, aerodynamic car to one that technically has the slipstream of a brick! Try not to get hung up on comparing the acceleration between the two as it'll drive (pun) you potty!

Back to 1) and basic engine/fuel set ups. A sound, well serviced engine with a properly working oil and coolant system is your starting point. Tuned and balanced carbs and good filtration next (preferably with a dyno readout to confirm). Tight gearbox and decent clutch next (for all those 'away from the lights' sprints   Good brakes absolutely essential for outbraking the boy racers into the bends.

.. you don't mention what engine is in the Westy?

[SootySport]

For 5k. I can only see that the early X flow, Pinto engines fall into your budget. They do come up for sale regularly and the more you see the the more you'll understand what cars are worth.  The advice is, keep looking, A Westy will turn up that you like and can afford.

[JustCallMeMac]

I bought my Westfield at the end of April, from a member of this forum and I went 'waaaay,' 'waaaay' over my initial budget.  

Whilst you should always be conscious of your budget, you should also consider what you intend to use the car for and whether you plan to be modifying in the future, for example for track use. If the latter, then whatever extra you can spend now, to obtain those choice upgrades, (and if you are sensibly able to do so), will certainly result in some significant savings longer term.

I made an 'informed decision' to spend far more as I'd come from a background of upgrading and modifying Evos and Imprezas ,so was conscious of both the compelling draw of "upgradeitus" (heart rules head syndrome) and indeed the severe pain it can inflict on the wallet. In addition, it wasn't unusual for me to spend, spend, spend only to see a similar car come up for sale, with all the work already done, using the same quality parts and for a lot, lot less than I had invested overall. And in the current, challenging economic climate you can certainly get a lot of 'bang for your buck!' And I'm not necessarily one of those who enjoys the challenge and satisfaction of building, upgrading and tinkering but I fully appreciate that many do!

So the way I saw it, I could either spend a lot less up front and continue suffering from the aforementioned allergy or alternatively, I could try to find a car, which ticked as many of my boxes from the off, in terms of being a comfortable and fun road car, easy to drive at all speeds, as well as a quick, well-sorted, robust and balanced track-day beast, when that itch needed scratching.

The Westy I ultimately bought, whilst on a 1998 chassis, had been meticulously re-built around a 2.0 Zetec, using some very nice parts, showed a great attention to detail, without over-complication and subsequently ticked every box on my list. I saw it as fate that I had to buy the car, even though it significantly exceeded my budget!

However, being new to Westfield and Seven-type cars in general, I'd also done a lot of research pre-purchase and mainly on this forum. I read literally hundreds of posts and threads, so that I knew what to look for and what made a good car, in terms of build, quality components and set up! The info and knowledge I gleaned was priceless and helped me to make a very good decision and one based on confidence.

And I'm so glad I did as I haven't had to touch the car since purchase and haven't felt the need to, apart from the odd bit of maintenance and one or two cosmetic mods.   First time that's happened in 20 years and I've had more fun in this car on road and track, in a few short months, than I ever did in the Japanese metal and that's not to say I didn't enjoy them for what they were.

It's just that driving a Westfield is such a wonderful and pure automotive experience and for me anyway, you don't need to be revving the nuts off it to get that. Family love it too, so everyone's a winner.  

Bottom line is, I certainly spent more than I should have but in the medium to long-term, it will pay dividends, as I would have had the wallet out by now and probably trailered the car up to NMS, which would of no doubt got serious!

When I tell SWMBO this, she just gives me a wry smile but for once, she knows that I'm probably telling the truth!  

Good luck with your search!

[Tonsko]

Heh, great story!

The one that is making me look over budget, is the one in the for sale forum from Ginger Wingnut. It looks mint.

[Carl]

I used to have exactly the same with all the toy's I've had. However for the last few year's I've revised my thinking.

I will only purchase something or upgrade something if it will improvement my enjoyment / fun.

Light weights hubs / uprights / batteries / etc may make the car slightly faster but not more fun.

Once you reached a certain point on the roads, faster is not always more fun.

Mine only gets upgraded if I can improve my enjoyment.

[lippydave]

So I originally set myself a budget of 8K, and then revised it downwards to ~5K.

The ones I was after around that price seem to have gone, or there are few things that I don't like the look of.

I have since seen one with a lot of power, looks mint, but on the market for around 7K - affordable, but a bit more!

So, being aware that something has to give somewhere - you're never going to tick every box, as there will have to be a compromise.

While the obvious answer is, "Only spend what you want to!", is it worth edging that budget a little to make sure that the car is a good one, or settling for something that might, or might not be, mechanically inferior? I've read that thread from that poor chap who bought one for around 5.5K and then the engine blew up not three days later! At least he had it from a dealer, so there was comeback.

I reckon this is an eternal battle with yourself!

Find a woman...Get married....

Stop  worrying about little things like how much money to spend on yourself....

Don't worry, she'll know everything....They always do....        

[Tonsko]

Haha! Just got married a month ago as it goes. I had decided to get one, then umm'd and ahh'd about spending the cash - the other half then said, "If you don't do it now when we don't have any kids, you won't have the money to do it later. If you've got the money to do it now and want to, do it now!"

No, you can't have her

[Wile E. Coyote]

The Westy I ultimately bought, whilst on a 1998 chassis, had been meticulously re-built around a 2.0 Zetec, using some very nice parts, showed a great attention to detail, without over-complication and subsequently ticked every box on my list.

..snip..

However, being new to Westfield and Seven-type cars in general, I'd also done a lot of research pre-purchase and mainly on this forum. I read literally hundreds of posts and threads, so that I knew what to look for and what made a good car, in terms of build, quality components and set up! The info and knowledge I gleaned was priceless and helped me to make a very good decision and one based on confidence.

I'd buy in to a lot of this...

When I went out looking, my "must haves" were mainly around a few components that would be difficult (or expensive) to change later.  BUT the biggie was finding one where there had clearly been a lot of thought go into the build and a "measure twice, cut once" approach adopted.  MUCH easier to work on a car when everything has been laid out logically... and there is significant variation out there (saw one with an interesting powerplant where even simple fault finding would have been a nightmare).

In the end I was fortunate that I got everything on my must have and quite a lot from my wish lists on the car I bought - doesn't mean I don't have a list of things that I can still do, but the biggest and most expensive potential upgrades have been taken care of.

Although more power is tempting, bear in mind that there is one school of thought that says it's more fun driving a lower powered car at 8/10ths than something faster at 4/10ths...  having driven 125bhp Cats on track, you'd be surprised just how many other cars you can reel in with a seemingly low powered engine and how satisfying that can be.  BUT if you want to make the R32 feel mundane, you may want a little more.

Whatever you drive though, you soon get used to it and if you're in the "acceleration is good"camp, will probably want more whatever you buy!  

[Mark (smokey mow)]

I think as the others have already said, only you can decide how much you want to spend, but if you're struggling to find anything within your budget then that suggests that either your budget is too low to buy a westfield or your expectations as to what you want for the money are too great.  

What ever you decide it will almost alway be cheeper in the long run to buy a good car needing little work rather than a cheeper car requiring a lot of work.  However buying cheep does allow you to spread the costs over time and enjoy the upgrading process.  The biggest costs being engine, so best to buy the car with the engine you want from the start.

IMO a budget of 5K isn't enough, but I'm sure some will prove me wrong.  As you've already spotted in the for sale section £6-8K can buy you a tidy presentable car that may just need a little fettling to make it nice.  

The discussion on power is always guarenteed to attract a good debate.  140bhp can feel very different between different cars and engines; the gearboxes, cams, mapping etc all have an influence on how that power is delivered.  My own car delivers approx 140bhp at 6500rpm, where conversely another car may need to be revved to 7000rpm to give the same power.

[frag68]

Having bought my first Westfield at the beginning of the year, I was also on a budget. I set this at £5500 and got a Pinto engined one for £5300. The spec in this car was what I wanted, ie harnesses, 40s high back seats and was BRG, so it ticked all the right boxes. However the car since then, has cost me in excess of £2000 with breakdowns mainly,and some modifications, and at the moment, its in my garage with the engine ready to come out having spent £550 on another engine and box.

A conrod snapped and went though the block and the gearbox was needing work done as it began making a noise when out in Le Mans this year.

Therefore had I looked for a car in the region of £8k, I could have got a Redtop or Zetec for that price which hopefully would have been more reliable.

Dont get me wrong, the car as it is runs an RL30 cam which was in it when I bought it, I had the head ported mildly and had the 45s rejetted down a bit to get a bit more bottom end power. The car isnt the lightest Westy on the road, but it sees off most cars and every time I am out in it I come back with a huge smile and a great sense of satisfaction.

My advice is simply get one which appears to be the best you can afford and the right spec. If you intend getting the dreaded upgradeitus, then spend a bit more when buying and get a better spec.

Happy hunting

Fraser

[jeff oakley]

Some good advice so far. I would say that I had more fun in my lower powered car 160bhp thna I have in my 200+bhp one now. Sure the power is great and when you open the taps it is great, but in the old one you had to work at it to get the most out of the car. Steve Hole of TKC magazine always says his favorite Caterham is the lowest powered one as it rewards the driver as you have to get it all right to get the best out of it.

If you want the big numbers then your budget is too low but wait a few months and you might get lucky as the winter comes in and money gets tight elsewhere.